hey guys, so I have some people here with me today and we're going to talk about
trans stuff, because I'm not qualified to talk about that myself.
Ezra: my name's Ezra, I'm
non-binary and my pronouns are they/them.
Cody: oh, hi I'm Cody
um, I'm a binary trans man and my pronouns are he/him.
so basically the
questions are going to be things about trans topics that are kind of annoying
to hear, but I feel like I can't answer them as a cis person, so these two are
going to try to answer them. one thing that I hear is people ask about trans
stuff is if the goal is to destroy gender stereotypes, what is it that makes
a trans person trans, rather than just a cis person defying those gender roles?
Ezra: gender presentation definitely is part of gender identity, it's not always the
whole situation. you can present one way but your gender is still going to be
whatever is in your head, so gender presentation is a little bit more a
little bit more choice to it, and gender identity is just what you feel
internally. even though the way I present can be read as like a butch lesbian or a
tomboy, the way I feel inside is always going to be non-binary.
Cody: people have said
to me like "why did you have to go through the transition? like we all would
have just accepted you as like a masculine lesbian and you could you
could dress however you wanted to. if we destroyed the notion that like woman
equals like breasts, and we like were very positive about the notion that like men
can have these body parts too and like why do you have to go through surgery?
why do you have to go through hormones? why do you have to change your pronouns
when pronouns no longer mean anything? and like gender is completely
constructed." regardless of how constructed gender potentially is, you
can still feel inside -like you still feel inside yourself that your
gender is very concrete and your gender means something very specific to you, and
if you're feeling like a man in my case and you're feeling that that means
that you would have a better quality of life if you got this surgery or if you
got these hormones or if you refer to as these pronouns,
then do it. however your gender looks like to you and that's how you want to
like physically embody that gender, that part of your gender. and like I
could still feel like a man and I could wear very feminine clothes and that
would be like defying gender stereotypes but that wouldn't be changing anything
about like the internal definition of man to me, and that wouldn't be changing
the status of man to me.
Mel: basically like what you both said is that gender is just a
thing that you feel basically.
Cody: yeah
Mel: -and it's not exactly in correspondence with like
how you dress.
Ezra: no matter how many people at this point understand that gender is socially constructed, like so is money.
and we very much need certain things to
function and also just rely on them a lot as a society. for some people without
physical transition it's very hard for them to be referred to in the way that
they would like in society all the time, and sometimes they need that, and they
want to always be read as the gender that they identify as.
Mel: so a popular topic
that came up recently on the internet was whether it's transphobic or not to
not want to date a trans person because you don't like their genitals.
Ezra: why would you date a trans person?
Mel: Shut up. [laughing]
I mean at the most basic level, if you're saying to
yourself and you're like a cis person and at this point you probably haven't
encountered many trans people, you're probably like "wow never seen one of
those," and it's kind of just like this conception that you have in your head
one: that all trans people are pre- or post-op that you're probably thinking,
two: whether or not they're on hormones, and when you boil it down to all that,
that's like turning a trans person into their transition, and like that's turning
a trans person into what body parts they can like have for you, when in reality like
their body parts they have for them. often times what I hear is not the
social part of being trans. it's not people being like "oh this person is like
socially transgender, therefore there's no way I would date them and their
ideologies." it's basically like "this is what this person has done with their body,
and this is what the trans person's body looks like, so I can never have sex
with them." what I would say to someone who's battling this within them about
whether or not they can date a trans person, and they can heap this burden on
their shoulders, what I would say is listen: if you feel uncomfortable dating
a trans person, if you feel uncomfortable wondering this for yourself, I for one
wouldn't go out into the world and say to everyone ,I would never date a trans
person. what I would do is harbor that feeling inside of you, examine it on your
own time and at your own willing, never say that out loud, and go through the
world not letting trans people know that you won't date them and having them feel
bad about themselves, but keeping that prejudice deep inside you and acting on
it as you wish. you know like, if you're not going to date a trans person, you
don't have to say it like-
Mel: -but we're agreeing it's a prejudice.
Cody: we're agreeing it's a prejudice.
Ezra: it is
Cody: oh yeah like it's a deep-seated discriminatory issue.
Ezra: and the problem is that no two trans people look the same or have the same
body because no two people in the world have the same body. if you're only
attracted to people of a certain gender and you go into every relationship
expecting all their bodies to look the same, you're going to be surprised a lot.
Cody: I got news for you!
Ezra: you're gonna be unhappy a lot.
I understand being uncomfortable dating someone with a certain set of genitals
but the fact is you can't boil all trans people down to a set of genitals, that's
just not going to work out for you. that's just not the case for everyone. I
think everyone has dating preferences, and you can be wary about stuff, but the
fact is, ruling out an entire group of people that is very diverse it's only
going to hurt your dating chances. chances are if you walk around saying
you want to date trans people like, we don't want to date you either
Mel: valid.
Cody: yeah like we're gonna tell you off
and move on. they're being like "no
I don't want to date trans people and you can't FORCE me to date trans people,"
Ezra: yeah
Cody: I hear that a lot, "you can't FORCE me to have sex with you."
no one's asking you to!
Mel: (mockingly) you're sexually assaulting me by telling me that it's
transphobic for me to not want a date trans people.
So another thing that comes up
a lot is what pronouns should I use to refer to a trans person when they were
pre-transition and why?
Cody: I think that the safe thing to do is
to assume that the pronouns they use now, those are the pronouns you should use
to refer to them like in childhood and like when they were born and
things like that. I know some people including myself will use like different
pronouns because they're trying to get a point across, but you should never do
that if you don't know for a fact and you don't have permission from
the person to do that.
Mel: another question is how can a trans person be trans
without experiencing dysphoria.
Ezra: so when I usually hear people ask this question,
they're generally talking about one kind of dysphoria which is gender dysphoria
that focuses on your body. usually people don't talk a lot about social dysphoria,
which involves the dysphoria that comes from people using the wrong pronouns
with you or using the wrong name, or just referring to you as a gender that
you are not. and I think that this question just often overlooks that one component
Cody: and I find it very interesting about like the whole like qualifier for
um for physical dysphoria. gender identity disorder was introduced to the
DSM and for like a lot of years, that's what insurance companies would need to use
and they still need the label of gender dysphoria. it's qualified as like an
illness, so for a lot of insurance companies that's what they need to know
you have in order for you to get on hormones and that's what they need to
have to subsidize hormones, subsidize surgery, and gender dysphoria
specifically refers to like discomfort with one's genitals, with one's
hormones, with the way one's body feels to them, and so a lot of counselors, a lot
of people just in society don't assume you're legitimate unless they can use
that as a reference point.
Mel: the last thing we're gonna talk about is "if such a small
percentage of the population is trans, why should I change my behavior as a cis
to accommodate.
Cody: I'm not asking anyone to like lift me on their shoulders and
carry me to and fro, just cater to my every need and bow down at my feet-
Mel: I would do that for you, Cody.
Cody: thank you I appreciate it ,but I'm not asking you to,
is the point. I don't understand what the big deal is about using a different name
and different pronouns. like nine times out of ten, that's all you'll be asked to
do and it's like as simple as words, and it's so not an inconvenience. even like
slip-ups like I've had people slip up and they'll be like "oh sorry, so sorry"
and they feel so guilty and like that might be a part of why people take such
like a defensive stance on it, is because they don't want
to be made to feel guilty but at that point it's like any slip-up you do, you say sorry
and you move on. and eventually it gets easier.
messing up pronouns is like when
you call the teacher mom. like- [laughing]
Cody: I called my lunch lady sensei once. [laughing]
I apologized and I moved on!
Ezra: I don't think I've ever known a trans person who's
gotten like really mad about someone accidentally misgendering them.
Cody: but I feel like a lot of the pushback about it just comes from being like "we don't want
to feel guilty" or like you don't want to have it on your conscience, you know? they
don't want to slip up and they don't want to be held accountable for not
doing that thing because if it's hard for them or if it's a little difficult
at first, they have to feel guilty about it, whereas if you're pushing back
before it even starts and being like "why should I change my entire worldview for
you?" then like you never have to start feeling guilty in the first place.
Ezra: I've never thought about it that way before. Cody: I just thought about it this way right now.
Mel: I hope you learned something about how to treat trans people from this.
Ezra: I also just want to say that like Cody and I are both on the trans masculine side
of things, and we have one perspective that is not everyone's perspective.
Mel: so if you want to follow these two cool people... Ezra: it's Ezra Rae. that's it. I talk about
being non-binary sometimes, I talk about my life.
Cody: my youtube channel is CallMeCody
I don't do a whole lot of like discourse videos, I don't do a whole lot
of like educational stuff. basically it's like just documenting what I've done.
I started when I was 16, and I was like a small child and I had a bowl haircut so
go check that out, and I just like follow my transition including like hormones
and recent top surgery.
Mel: I'll leave both of their information in
the description. thanks for watching and I'll see you guys next time make a video.
Cody: OH, so you're gonna cut this out?
Mel: yeah that's how this works Cody. [laughing]
Ezra: being trans is very serious.
Cody: trans people don't laugh.
[laughing]
Ezra: are you pro-trans Mel?
Mel: I'm very pro-trans, I'm dating one so..
Ezra: you just spit in my eye. [laughing]
Cody: that's transphobic.
Mel: I spit on a trans person, not clickbait.
Ezra: I'd kiss you too but that'd be weird.
Cody: yeah I feel like that's your thing.
Do you do a really cool outro? Do you do like (snaps)
Mel: [laughing] yeah I go (snaps)
Cody: oh my god
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