This is Deliverance Ministry.
FM Videocast number 21.
Hello everyone and welcome to another episode of Deliverance Ministry.FM where we give you
proven insights about the demonic realm in deliverance ministry so you can wage spiritual
warfare more effectively.
This is Dr Don Ibbitson and I'm here with my colleague andcan co-host Dr Phyllis Tarbox.
Welcome Phyllis.
Well, it is good and we just want to welcome you again.
We've will appreciate it.
Appreciate all the comments.
We're getting suggestions for topics and we'll probably mention those again right at the
end in that, but we do appreciate the interest that this podcast is drawing into.
We want to keep coming up with good topics for you and we hope you're gonna.
Enjoy the [inaudible] today.
It's a question that we hear frequently when people come to the counseling center and some.
And it goes something along like this is like, how do I need deliverance?
How do I know?
Um, if I need deliverance, do you think I need deliverance?
And so we want to address that question.
Many times people ask it in context with somebody else or their family members, you know, that
they think do they need deliverance.
So that's the topic today and I would encourage you to listen to the end because we're going
to tell you again about our opportunity to get a free copy download of our women's ministry
plain and simple manual, and we also want to introduce a brand new resource that we
have on our website or our counseling academy website.
It's totally free, so we'll talk about that at the end as well.
So I guess Phyllis to started off, you know, people understand where it counseling center
and a deliverance ministry and that's how people find this.
And so many times people have, by the time they found us, they have looked for help elsewhere.
Sometimes we're not the first stop for a little while ago, last pit stop when people have
tried everything else and then they'll try to deliver it.
They come for counseling and many times they've tried other things to write just reading on
their own or going to the pastor and prayer at the altar and I'm reading the Bible books
and sometime you know the whole question of deliverance.
So they read about it or found us or somebody referred them here.
So we want to focus on that topic today as I talked about, once again, we're not going
to try a copier or a cover.
Everything again here, we've had other podcast talking about deliverance.
What it is, and quite simply, deliverance is the casting out demons.
It is simple.
It's, um, there's, we talk about another podcast about resisting demons and discerning spirits,
but this is really enjoyed which is the driving out of demons.
That's what it is.
And of course is it is part of the arsenal or are part of the tools.
And we believe that the believers in certainly counselors should be using to help people.
So I, to start off on a kind of a high level of you, we want to share our philosophy about
who needs deliverance.
Very simply answer, I think we all need deliverance.
Don, we live here and this is a place where we know that Satan has fallen in revelation
[inaudible] little time in great fury and you know, hey, if we're blood-bought redeemed
by the power of the Holy Spirit and accepting Jesus Christ as our Lord and Savior, then
he's not going to get our soul.
But you know what, a little bit further down in revelation 12, it talks about how he wants
our testimony and how he'll, he'll release that onslaught of oppression against the saints
of God to really hold them out of the fullness of their call.
And so even from a standpoint of maybe I'm not being completely harassed, but I'm not
getting.
I'm not taking the borders of what God has asked me to do.
I seem to be delayed or disappointed or hindrance.
Hindered, you know, even from that perspective, I think deliverance is, is a, is a must so
that we are not, you know, I don't want to get to heaven one day and have God say, Hey,
you missed it.
You didn't do it.
You didn't do your call.
Well, that's it, and you know, the Bible does say these devils are here to kill, steal and
destroy, and we do as a general rule, I can say quite simply that it is for everybody
and he's ministered to people delivering sometimes for people who have been, they would say Christians
all our lives as far as they can remember it not been involved in a lot of people were
thinking of worldly Sim and still had demonic torment because there are open doors on and
there's a bunch of them as to how and why.
And I think part of the thing where people get confused about is, you know, I heard somebody
say, I think it's a good ter term.
People, if they don't, haven't been taught about the demonic realm.
They learn how to cope or coexist with their demons or there's somebody heard, I heard
the phrase that life is about demon management.
And I think it's an interesting phrase, but I think that's a fair where people learn to
cope and coexist with demonic strongholds.
And um, you know, people go through counseling many times for a long period of time, right?
I, I tell people that all the time on where you were, where your different types of counselors,
a lot of people have used a lot of them and they get to us and they're like, what's going
to be different?
How is this going to change my life?
And you know, there's a joke that I don't hold their hand site.
I certainly don't throw Kleenex boxes at them like some of my friends have suggested don't
provide them with saying we don't have compassion, have compassion, but I, but we don't have
like hello kitty band-aids where we're not gonna just sit here and try to cover up the
wound and pretend it's not there.
And soft soap it.
I mean, you know, you want to get down to the heart of the reason to why it got there.
Why that, why you're being tormented or harassed or what's keeping you out of your call and
get it out of the way and get moving on.
Exactly.
And we, and I think it's, you know, we do, we do counseling, obviously work for training
that we'd do it and we, and we, we're not trying to say one is you need one or the other.
I think for us and what we want to talk about here that many times the issue is timing,
you know, is people come in and, you know, should I get counseling first, do I need deliverance
first?
And I guess our simple view is that if people are open and willing, they should go.
We encourage people to consider going through deliverance first.
And that is because
it's difficult to counsel a demon.
I mean, you know, they're not usually, they're not usually very pliable with counseling.
They'll try to keep the people from hearing the actual truth.
They'll get in the way.
They don't seem to respond very nicely when it comes to counseling.
So you want to get them out of the way and then.
And then you'd be able to speak in the council and the direction and the renewing of the
mind that the person needs to move in order to, to, to take back what the enemy has stolen.
No, I think that's an important point to emphasize that, you know, sometimes people come in and
um, you know, we're, yes, we're deliverance ministry, what we do, counseling.
We tried to assess every time on the first appointment or the first session, whether
it's in the office or over the Internet where people are at spiritually, what is their background,
what do they believe?
And if we bring up the con, you know, the topic of spiritual warfare, deliverance in
there, they just sit there quietly, their eyes glaze over.
Then we know that that may not be the first in the best approach for plan.
So we have good tools and things we can, we can help people with their bucks.
But once again, I think if people are open and we'll get into some of the evidence is
a demonic strongholds and see sometimes w we'll get to that in a moment.
But I think as a general rule, we would say if people are open and people come in and
we find this from deliverance, are they open to it?
And then we, we believe from a timing standpoint, it is best to go through deliverance first.
Yeah.
And that's one of the things that I talk about a lot too is, is, um, you know, people will
actually say, well I have somebody that I want to send to you, but you know, they really
don't know anything about deliverance and I don't want them to be afraid.
And, and I'm like, wow, just send them.
Because, you know, I think as counselors we're trained to know when the person is ready or
if they're not going to be ready, but we can plant seeds and open doors and really, you
know, opened good doors as to what the Lord can do in their life.
And we're sensitive to that.
So people need healing.
Counseling.
Yeah.
We'll walk it out very gently at first, we're never going to rush them.
I'm trying to let people through deliberate.
We don't push.
Some people just are not ready yet, but I think you said something that was very important.
It's worth highlighting our experiences in doing this a long time.
Obviously that if people.
Sometimes we get people in here who have been through counseling for years.
I mean I've talked to people who had a couple, just really just the other past couple of
days and they went to a marriage counselor for four years and it was like, man alive.
I don't, I don't have a four year program.
People I don't want to pay for me and I, you know, I just think, hey, let's do some glimpses,
do some counseling, but then you need to be part of a good healthy spirit, bible-believing
church butter.
But the bottom line on deliverance is as we understand that the driving out of demons
that are people are free from a demonic
spirits.
Then then if you like, there's more room in there.
So if you're like for the, for the spirit of God to work and then their minds are clear,
right?
Abled able to win the mind battles you talked about significantly.
Remember, after the deliverance that I went through was, it was almost as if the holy
spirit just stretched out on the inside of me and went, ah, there's more room after that.
Then I, my hunger increased for the word of God and to know more and my mind was renewed
and you know, became realize who I was and I wasn't living in conforming to the patterns
of the world.
You know, I had an identity that was founded in Jesus Christ and that, and all of that
was really after deliverance for the Greens are Greener for many voices are gone and you're
able to focus in on the word worship.
So that's part of the fruit of it.
And so I guess our view is that yes, many people do need counseling and we do cows and
we're great believers in Christian counseling.
But going through deliverance from a timing standpoint is something we strongly encourage
people to do.
But once again, people will come in and they'll say, I don't know that much about deliverance,
but do you think I needed?
What are, what are the indicators or what are the evidences, evidences of demonic strongholds
questionnaire and comes out with things is just, you know, there's some things that we
look for.
Evidence of demonic strongholds is an area of a person's life where they, where they
cannot get the victory, that same button that gets pushed and you go there and
it takes over, and I've heard people say it, they just get completely out of control and
they don't even know how to stop it, but they recognize it because they recognize it as
something that's been in their family and it's a pattern that they've come into agreement
with and that spirit is, they're driving them with that, that anger also, same thing.
You know, one of the things I was very affectionately aware of was fear.
Fear with something that you know, no matter how bold and brave I would try to psych myself
up to be, I was afraid.
I was afraid of things in the dark.
I was afraid of failure.
I was very insecure about who I was.
You know, all of those things did not line up with who I was meant to be, but whenever
I got into a situation I would cower and I would back up and so I didn't have any way
of really controlling that.
Those things just really drove me.
Things like addictions or perversions, people that are hungry for your biography.
Yep, Yep.
Even less, less of any kind, less for attention, like you have to be approved of and needed
and wanted, or you're automatically rejected and you're depressed.
If that's a pattern, there's a stronghold there.
Whatever it is, it's painting your life that does not line up with the word of God
and you've tried.
I think it's important to emphasize we're not on the mindset.
They're not demons behind every person's life and everything isn't the demon sorority or
because we have our unrenewed are what we call our flesh, but I think coming back to
emphasize in the area of a person's life, one of the indicators where they cannot get
the victory and that means, Hey, I know this is a problem.
I have a problem with anger, but I can't control it.
Or same with the depression.
Some people, they really can't even put a finger necessarily why they're depressed and
there's elements of sadness.
Things will happen, but people are just bound up in depression and may at times they can't
even put a finger on.
And how or why.
So those, we'd come back to areas of a person's life where they cannot get the victory.
They tried, they do classes, they try techniques, you know, um, they do things, they do the
things.
I get counseling pastor read books and say, you know, this is a problem, but I've never
gotten the victory over this.
Or I've had it a long time.
Those, once again, are what we would call a strongholds in area of your life where you
cannot get your evidence is about right.
I've had many people that have come in and said, I don't know where it started.
I just know that I've been dealing with it my whole life.
Yeah.
And that's why sometimes we do the interview and you can go back and, because you know,
when we talk about spirits and demons just can't jump on a person.
There's entry points or open doors.
And sometimes when you know a person's background, you can say, wow, maybe, you know, this may
have been where it, you know, how that, how, and why that spirit entered into you.
And so, um, so the bondage is real that and Dah, Dah, Dah.
These spirits are evidence and evidence.
And the second one, and we've kind of touched on it, is as we mentioned people many times,
if they come for delivering, so they, us, they have tried other things.
They have been to the pastor, right?
They'd been to the altar for prayer, repeated prayer on what and what typically, um, may
don't get any kind of a, what we'd call lasting fruit.
It might be temporary, um, but there's nothing really that sustains and elastic and we believe
deliverance done is robust.
God can get free from a spirit as a matter of keeping that spirit out.
And you shouldn't see fruit.
Well,
I think, you know, we talked about this a lot, you know, especially at the altar because
I think that's one of the places where you know, hey, that's said that's a sanctified
place.
That's a place where I should be able to get free and go up on Sunday and you can absolutely.
God delivers a myriad of ways.
But if there are open doors and that's what we've talked about before, you're not going,
like you said, you're not going to see this, the fruit sustain because those doors are
still open and they walk out of the church, the spirit, you're going to come right back
again.
And so that's part of that repeated prayer.
They just, it's kind of like in a cycle.
So that's one of the reasons why we take people through the interview process to discern those
doors.
A lot of times they can't discern them on their own, you know, and it does take outside
years.
I'm always amazed on when people come in and they tell you their story for an hour and
then you have a clear picture of the cycle and the pattern that has been in their family
from the very beginning, and I call it the same repeating play, but with different actors
at different stages of their life.
And then you, you, you mentioned that.
It's like, wow, there's been that spirit of death or whatever in their life all this time
and it's just been repeating with different people and they look at you like, wow.
Obviously of wow, I never thought of it.
We've heard it so many times.
As you do mark deliverance is like anything you get, you get, you hear the same stories
or people say the d, The demonic human but are not creative or not creative because they
have a pretty good set of tactics that work.
So, but when you hear that and you understand, you see the demonic.
Keenan will work pretty consistently when people's lives, um, over and over again because
quite frankly, their methodologies, they work, they work pretty well.
I did just say that to you this morning with one of my clients because she said, why?
Why am I having to go through this?
And I said, well, you know what, your story is unique, but the devil is not so with women,
you know, because that's pretty much my wheelhouses.
It almost always starts with things like abandonment, rejection, then insecurity in alienation and
so that's what the enemy loves to do that because he wants to build a distrust in the
woman's heart in order for them to begin to harden their heart and when their heart, heart,
and then there's unbelief.
There's distrust, there's walls that go up and it blocks the whole loving nature of a
woman.
How we were created to be.
And so you know, all of that stuff has to come down.
All the self defending all of the, all of the protection devices, everything that a
woman would try to insulate themselves with in order for them to be free.
And I think that's one of the worn out ones that the enemy uses over and over again with
women.
Because of the way they've been either handled by their parents are treated by their husbands
or whatever it is that self defending that gets in there really hardens your heart and
keeps them out of that full freedom.
And so those are the areas where we can take a look at that.
And like you said, no, that, you know, we've heard it over and over and over again.
So we understand that this is an agenda that the enemy uses on mascot and help that person
get free.
Yup.
That's uh, it's important because there are these open doors as you understand those in
course, you know, people do their homework and they get, God gives him a revelation as
they look back on their own, on their own sites.
And so, so we've, we've talked about that there are the, the uh, areas of a person's
life where they can't get the victory.
Maybe they've had repeated prayer, right?
Council, they've tried even fasting or reading the word or declaring things.
And for some people, they've resorted medications now and our society and the secular world
for a lot of the issues, emotional issues, people deal with depression, fear and anxiety
that the, you know, which we believe there's spirits of the roots of these things that
many times people will have to go to a medical professional and up, met on medications.
And typically, um, you know, our approach with the people I've met, very few people
like them, they don't enjoy being on them.
And you know, there are band aids, no condemning or you know, talking badly about people doing
that.
If you're hurt, if you're, you know, you've got problems, you go for help wherever you
can, but spirits behind if they're spirits behind these things, you really need deliverance
from then on.
We've seen people go through deliverance now in conjunction with their doctors.
Get off of the medication.
Well, I'll be the first one to go transparent on that one.
I know when I walked in, I was on antidepressants.
I'd been on them because I'd lost my mother.
Things were unhealthy and my life and had gotten upside down.
And yeah, my serotonin levels in my brain were like really low, low, low, low, low,
and so that was one of the first things they said, you know, is to go ahead and take these
things, but you're right, it didn't, it just, it didn't really, it kind of numbed me, made
me feel less emotional.
I guess that helped with some of the sleeping issues that I had.
But, but, you know, after I went through deliverance it was, it was easy.
It was like a, it wasn't a case where the, where I said, oh, I gotta throw this out right
away because I went through deliverance, I walked it out with the Lord and there was
a time where I just recognize it didn't need it anymore.
And I think that's the beauty of the way the Holy Spirit will walk you.
So we will never tell you to dump your medical.
We're not doctors, we don't do that.
We don't ever tell people that.
Do that make people feel badly for being honest.
Because sometimes they help, they help.
They can get them stabilized, but it's not a, it's not a lifetime thing.
It's not something that you really have to know that at the core I think I can count
on one hand with fingers left over somebodies.
No, I'm really happy to just see myself being happy with that.
Now.
Most people, they, they just recognize it because you know, it doesn't bring them a
cure and the side effects or no side effects and so that that's an indication.
So if you say, hey, the try the medications for these things, we're doing these and they
don't work that many times.
Evidence evidences too.
I've had like a lot of success stories with that as far as people being able to drop them
and not take the medications anymore.
So that is exciting.
When you start to see people go back to their doctors and their doctors are all a dinner,
you know that, oh my gosh, what have you mean you're, you're, you're not taking your medication
anymore.
And then test the thyroid, test the test the body for all the different things and then
say, wow, you don't eat it.
You know, you really are.
You.
So many times when people go through deliverance, they get free from the spirits that have been
affecting the physical body and the body that the organ isn't the organs and the glands
can come back into alignment, you know, and that's the thing we lose sight of sometimes
in deliverance at Jesus called spirits out people sometimes it was for healing,
about one third of them were right.
One third of the healings were for deliverance related.
I'm not sure the number, but it sounds reasonable.
I mean, one of his ministry ministry of course was preaching in deliverance, but one of the
women went in scripture that he minister to his head was crippled by a spirit of infirmity.
So she had a spirit of a physical issue with, with the physical crippling but delivered
from.
So we've seen that happen, um, about it, you know, personally, it's just, you know, we
ask people to stir up their faith for that, believe that Jesus is your healer.
You're deliver.
Those are indicated many times the medications aren't successful with depression and anxiety.
And then there's another group of people.
Sometimes the evidence is pretty clear.
You know, I mean some of these things we've talked about being can be subtle but summer
and I mean people will say they were there fighting or arguing with her husband and they
will seek, that person will start, their eyes will change, they'll start snarling, start
speaking and things or they are where their eyes have seen their eyes go read, they've
seen have looked or, and they'll use words like I look in my husband or my wife's eyes
and say it wasn't them somebody else.
So those are indicators to pretty, you know, pretty, uh, pretty strong in.
Those are indicators to that when they come in for deliverance or the, their differences
are pretty strong as well.
Right?
I mean a couple of times in the last few weeks you've had your hand on that door because
they've gotten free and those are the ones who come in saying, you know, I don't know,
I just don't feel like myself, you know, I'd feel like I do have all this other stuff that's
going on inside my body.
And and when they get prayer or those things go and some, sometimes you know, not, not
all the time, praise God, but once in awhile you'll see a manifestor and deliverance to
what does it happens.
We try to prepare people.
I'm not saying there is none but, but, but you know, I believe is people repair the,
they're usually, you know, lesser should be sometimes people tied in with that is you
will hear people when we, when we talked to them the first time and asked them about issues
in their life and they'll say words like it's not meat.
It's like something in me and they don't know what the it is.
Some I've seen people literally break down in tears when we go through the teaching and
see based on what you're telling me, I'm at least things that are happening.
I believe these are demonic spirits and say that's what it is, is demonic one or more
demonic spirits because they know it's not them.
It's something in there.
Yeah.
It's like a spirit of rage is a good example of this example.
Exactly.
Just comes right out and it just takes right over and starts to scream and loses control
and you know the in and I think with rage, that's it.
That's an indicator because you know you can have a ton of anger, but it's the one time
you cross over into rage and you know that that spirit is there and it happens more and
more and it'll just, it'll start taking over.
So it's not a one time incident rates.
If you're recognizing it in you or someone you know, that's a real, that's a real strong
ruling spirit.
They will say that it's powerful and it gets fed and want to get failure, right?
You almost want to get fat and so not a one hit wonder and it wants to write and they'll
lay for awhile and they get fed, but in some way somehow either on your own or self deliverance
or somebody praying for you or somewhere supernet you need to get delivered set free from that
spirit.
So those are, those are indicators to.
And like I say, sometimes it's, it's obvious and people, you know, we can see sometimes
you'll see it in church situations, you know, certain where the spirit of God isn't there,
there'll be manifestations in the presence of God.
And so those are pretty evidence doing it because they say, wow, that person, you know,
needs deliverance.
So those are, those are some of the indicators as well.
So, um, those are kind of the things we kind of lay out for people.
And um, in terms the answering the question, it's like, do you need deliverance?
Like, yes, everybody needs a little bit.
And I tell them, we go through deliverance from time to time.
It's not a one time, one shot deal where you get it done in 1989 and you're good to go
clean, right?
Maintenance, keep the doors closed and we can, we re open door, stuff happens, life
happens and we can open doors.
And so we live in a fallen world.
We're not in the world, we're not of the world, but we're in the world and these devils don't
give up.
They can, we can reopen doors.
And so we just go through deliverance again.
No, and that's absolutely not any one or two things you'd want to emphasize for people
listening to this in terms of what they should take away from this session on deliverance
ministry versus counseling.
Phyllis, anything that you want to highlight?
The devil has been seeing the freedom and they've not had sustainable freedom with the,
with what they've been doing.
Then guess what?
It's probably not working.
Take back what the enemy has stolen because you know it's time for you to really walk
in the fullness of your inheritance.
None of us know how long we have and I don't want to be, like I said earlier, the one that
gets up to heaven and says, and the Lord said, you know, you never really walked in the fullness
of everything I wanted you to do.
I wouldn't hate to hear that for our next generation to our children won't do it for
yourself.
Then do it for them.
I think it's important again, that it is for everyone and we encourage people if they're
willing to go through deliverance first as early as possible.
I would say almost a disclaimer experienced is that people going through a trauma going
through a traumatic event during the middle of a divorce.
Emotions are raw.
Many times they do deliverance, but you know, it's too easy when the dell is open, those
doors, anything's too sensitive and the best time to go through deliverance is on the other
side of a trauma of some kind in the middle of it because it's just generally more effective
because there is an element of having to it out because there's an element of discerning
and resisting the spirit.
So we try to come back to the house.
So I think get, like to emphasize that we hope you've enjoyed this podcast and got some
benefit out of it.
Um, we'd sure love to hear from you.
Um, we'd really like to have you visit our website or, and counseling.com website.
There's deliverance ministry dot FM podcast is there on itunes.
If you release a rather, leave a review for us on itunes and there's a link there to show
you how to do that.
We will be happy to send you a link to get our free downloadable copy of our deliverance
ministry and plain and simple manual if you will, leave a review for us.
I mean we love to get reviews.
It helps to build the visibility and so if you'll do that for us, we will, we will do
that for you.
And there's details again on the website and how to do that.
And finally tell you about a new resource that we have on the AandBAcademy.com or Counseling
Academy website.
Um, we've had resources for a long time.
We've turned out blogs, hundreds of blogs and powerpoints and podcasts and videos and
they were all over the different places on our website, on what we've done is consolidate
them on the academy.com website.
We've calling it the resource library.
You can get to it from the counseling website or the academy website.
You just, what kind of resources and it's totally free.
We do ask you to sign up, you have to register to get to it, but, um, you sign up for it.
Um, and we'll send you an email updates when we release new content and that we hope you
find that useful and love to hear from me on that as well as any suggestions that you
have for future podcast.
We appreciate you very much and we thank you for listening.
God bless.
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