>>> DIRECTOR COMEY COME TESTIFY BEFORE US.
>> WE HAVEN'T HEARD FROM COMEY. >> THE REAL THING THAT THAT
AMERICAN PUBLIC WANTS TO HEAR IS FROM JAMES COMEY.
THEY WANT TO HEAR FROM HIM IN AN OPEN HEARING.
>> THE CALLS FOR JAMES COMEY TO TESTIFY BEFORE CONGRESS ARE ONLY
GETTING LOUDER. RIGHT NOW HE HAS STANDING
INVITES FROM THREE CONGRESSIONAL COMMITTEES BUT WHAT WILL WE SAY
AND WHAT WILL HE SAY AND WHAT MORE DOES HE KNOW?
WILL WE EVER SEE HIM BEFORE THESE COMMITTEES?
WITH US AS WELL CHARLEYEY SAVAG MSNBC CONTRIBUTOR AND LEGAL
REPORTER FOR THE NEW YORK TIMES. YOU'VE SEEN HIS BILINE OUT FRONT
TWICE IN THE LAST 12 HOURS. HIS LATEST IS A DEEP DIVE INTO
THE MECHANICS OF TONIGHT'S STORY.
WHY IT'S HARD TO HAVE AN INDEPENDENT RUSSIA
INVESTIGATION. WELCOME TO THE BROADCAST.
MATT, WE'LL BEGIN WITH YOU. NUMBER ONE, WHAT'S THE CHANCE
COMEY CAN AVOID CONGRESSIONAL TESTIMONY AND NUMBER TWO TALK
ABOUT HIS PERSONAL HABIT, HIS METICULOUS NOTE TAKING AND WHY
THERE'S LIKELY MORE THAN WHAT WE'VE ALREADY SEEN.
>> BEFORE TODAY IT WAS VERY LIKELY WE WERE GOING TO HEAR
FROM JIM COMEY VERY SOON. OBVIOUSLY THEY'VE CALLED HIM.
HE HAS LEAKED OUT THROUGH ASSOCIATES THAT HE WANTS TO
TESTIFY. BUT THAT MIGHT CHANGE RATHER
QUICKLY. ONE OF THE FIRST CONVERSATIONS
HE'S GOING TO HAVE IS WITH BOB MUELLER.
THEY'VE WORKED TOGETHER. HE'S GOING TO CALL AND ASK JIM
COMEY FOR A BRIEFING ON THE INVESTIGATION.
AND ONE OF THE THINGS HE'LL DO IS MAKE A DECISION AS TO WHETHER
JAMES COMEY WOULD TESTIFY OR NOT.
APPARENTLY ONE OF EVERY CONVERSATION HE HAD WITH THE
PRESIDENT, MEMOS. AND IF BOB MUELLER DECIDES EARLY
ON BY LOOKING AT THESE MEMOS AND TALKING TO JIM COMEY THAT HE
WANTS TO LOOK AT POTENTIAL OBSTRUCTION BY THE PRESIDENT OR
WHOEVER ELSE, HE MAY NOT WANT
JAMES COMEY TESTIFYING BECAUSE HE'S GOING TO WANT THE ELEMENT
OF SURPRISE OR PUTS IN A NEW GRAND JURY.
>> YOU'VE HAD YOUR HAND IN TWO EXPLAINERS.
THE FIRST ONE WAS THE DEFINITION OF OBSTRUCTION OF JUSTICE.
AND DOES THIS FIT? THE SECOND ONE WHY A SPECIAL
COUNSEL'S GOING TO BE TOUGH IN THIS MATTER.
PLEASE FREE ASSOCIATE. THEY'RE HELPFUL TO ALL OF US IN
THE AUDIENCE WHO READ THEM. CAN YOU ANSWER BOTH QUESTIONS?
>> ABSOLUTELY. CAN I DO IT IN A WAY THAT MAKES
IT ALL MAKE SENSE? I'LL TRY.
AND YOU FORGOT A THIRD ONE OF HOW THE MECHANICS OF IMPEACHMENT
WOULD WORK ALTHOUGH IT'S QUITE PREMATURE.
THIS INVESTIGATION IS HARD BECAUSE IT'S VERY AWKWARD TO TRY
TO GET TO A PLACE WHERE YOU HAVE A SENSE OF GENUINE INDEPENDENCE
WHEN YOU'RE INVESTIGATING THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES.
WE USED TO HAVE, AFTER WATERGATE, A SPECIAL PROSECUTOR
LAW. YOU CONTINUE TO HEAR MEMBERS OF
CONGRESS CALLING FOR THAT. EITHER THEY DON'T UNDERSTAND OR
ARE IN DENIAL ABOUT THE FACT THAT CONGRESS IN 1999 LET LAPSE
THE LAW THAT CREATED A SPECIAL PROSECUTOR THAT COULD NOT BE
FIRED BY THE PRESIDENT. A REFORM PUT IN PLACE AFTER THE
SATURDAY NIGHT MASSACRE OF WATERGATE FAME.
WE, AS A COUNTRY NOW, SIMPLY LACK A CRIMINAL INVESTIGATIVE
MECHANISM THAT DOES NOT SUCKJECT TO THE PRESIDENT'S DIRECTION AND
CONTROL. SO THE APPOINTMENT OF A SPECIAL
COUNSEL, NOT AN INDEPENDENT COUNSEL, BUT A SPECIAL COUNSEL
AND ESPECIALLY THIS ONE, BOB MUELLER WHO SEEMS TO BE A MAN
VERY HARD TO INTIMIDATE OR PUSH AROUND SHOULD GIVE US A MEASURE
OF INDEPENDENCE. BUT AT THE END OF THE DAY IF
PRESIDENT TRUMP WANTS TO DIRECT HIM TO BE FIRED, HE CAN DO SO.
SO THAT'S GOING TO BE LOOMING OVER THIS INVESTIGATION THAT WAS
NOT LOOMING OVER INDEPENDENT COUNSEL INVESTIGATIONS IN THE
'80s AND THE '90s AND AN INVESTIGATION OF -- A FACT
FINDING INVESTIGATION FROM CONGRESS IT ITSELF WOULD STILL
BE IN SOME SENSE A PARTISAN EXERCISE MADE UP OF REPUBLICANS
OR DEMOCRATS AND APPOINTEES OF THOSE PARTIES.
INTO HELPING YOUR TEAM OR TRYING TO GET THE OTHER TEAM WHICH IS
NOT ALWAYS CONDUCIVE TO FINDING OUT INFORMATION.
I'LL PAUSE THERE. >> LET ME ASK A FOLLOW UP.
HAVEN'T THEY CHOSEN THE ONE GUY WHO IS PHYSICALLY ALMOST THE
GIANT COMEY IS AND IS A LOOMING PRESENCE OVER AMERICAN LAW,
JUSTICE AND THE FBI? >> WELL, YOU KNOW BEFORE THE
PRESIDENT FIRED COMEY, I DIDN'T EXPECT THAT TO HAPPEN EITHER.
WE ARE SORT OF IN UNCHARTED TERRITORY HERE AND THE SENSE OF
THINGS THAT COULD HAPPEN IN THEORY BUT WE DON'T THINK WILL
HAPPEN BECAUSE IT WOULD BE STRANGE, A VIOLATION OF NORMS
AND TRADITIONS AND THE WAY THINGS ARE DONE AND OPTICS, THAT
DOES NOT SEEM TO BE A PARTICULARLY GOOD GUIDE TO HOW
THINGS HAPPEN IN 2017. AND SO I THINK THE FACT
SOMETHING IS POSSIBLE IS SOMETHING THAT WE SHOULD NOT
LOOK AWAY FROM AS WE EMBARK ON WATCHING BOB MUELLER TRY TO MAKE
SENSE OF THIS INCREDIBLE MESS. >> SPEAKING OF THE INCREDIBLE
MESS, AM I CORRECT THAT THE CONGRESSIONAL INVESTIGATIONS --
I THOUGHT IT WOULD BE PUT IN A WHEEL BARROW AND BROUGHT OVER TO
WHERE MUELLER RENTS OFFICE SPACE.
THEY'RE GOING TO CONTINUE CONCURRENTLY.
SO WE'RE GOING TO HAVE THAT NEWS AND STRESS AND LEAKAGE?
>> THEY'RE GOING TO CONTINUE CONCURRENTLY BUT I THINK YOU'LL
SEE BOB MUELLER TRY TO DECONFLICT THE INVESTIGATIONS,
TO MAKE SURE THE SENATE AND HOUSE INVESTIGATIONS DON'T DO
ANYTHING THAT WOULD POSSIBLY INTERFERE WITH HIS ABILITY TO
EVENTUALLY BRING CRIMINAL CHARGES.
IF WE SEE THE JUSTICE DEPARTMENT NOT TURN OVER THESE MEMOS JIM
COMEY WROTE AND IT'S AT MUELLER'S REQUEST, IT'S BECAUSE
HE THINKS THAT'S SOMETHING HE NEEDS TO LOOK VERY STRONGLY AT.
ONE OF THE THINGS HE I THINK CAN BE UNSATISFYING IS AT THE END OF
THIS INVESTIGATION, BOB MUELLER WILL BRING CHARGES OR HE WON'T.
WHAT WE SHOULDN'T EXPECT IS A BIG PUBLIC REPORT.
IT WON'T BE THE KIND OF REPORT YOU SEE FROM A COMMITTEE OR AN
INSPECTOR GENERAL OR A COMMISSION AND THAT'S WHY IT IS
APPROPRIATE FOR THESE COMMITTEES TO PROCEED SEPARATELY SO THEY
CAN HAVE PUBLIC TESTIMONY, REACH CONCLUSIONS OUTSIDE OF CRIMINAL
LAW. THERE'S STILL THINGS DEEPLY
INAPPROPRIATE, DEEPLY
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