INFIRMARY. [ NO AUDIO ]
-- AUTHORITIES IN THE UK NOW TELLING NBC NEWS THAT THE
FORENSIC EVIDENCE AT THE SCENE INDICATES THAT WAS A SUICIDE
ATTACK, BRIEF ASIDE ON THAT. WE WERE JUST SPEAKING TO MALCOLM
NANCE ABOUT THAT, SOMEONE IN HIS WORK IN THE MILITARY AND
INTELLIGENCE HAS BEEN PHYSICALLY ON SCENE AT MORE THAN ONE
SUICIDE BOMBING. ONE OF THE THINGS HE WAS
DESCRIBING TO US IS THAT WHEN THERE IS A SUICIDE BOMBER, MORE
OFTEN THAN NOT, THE FORENSIC DETAILING OF THE SCENE WILL ALSO
INCLUDE TELLTALE DANGER TO THE BOMBER'S BODY THAT IS DIFFERENT
THAN THE TYPE OF CARNAGE HE'S ABLE TO INFLICT ON OTHERS, AND
IT'S A GRAPHIC CONSEQUENCE OF THE PHYSICS OF WEARING A BILL OF
INDICTMENT WE'RE TOLD FORENSIC EVIDENCE AT THE SCENE INDICATES
THAT WAS A SUICIDE ATTACK. IN ADDITION A SENIOR LAW
ENFORCEMENT OFFICIAL BRIEFED ON THE BRITISH INVESTIGATION SAYS
THEY BELIEVE THEY HAVE TENTATIVELY IDENTIFIED THE
BOMBER. THAT SAID, LAW ENFORCEMENT
OFFICIALS NOT PROVIDING ANY ADDITIONAL INFORMATION ON THE
IDENTITY OF THE BOMBER, BUT THIS IS U.S. OFFICIALS TELLING NBC
NEWS THIS. WE'VE BEEN BRIEFED BY UK
AUTHORITIES, THE INDICATIONS ARE THEY MAY HAVE AN IDENTIFICATION
FOR THIS ALLEGED SUICIDE BOMBER, BUT THAT'S AS FAR AS WE CAN GO
RIGHT NOW. I WANT TO BRING INTO THE
CONVERSATION A "NEW YORK TIMES" CORRESPONDENT WHO FOCUSES ON AL
QAEDA AND ISIS. THANK YOU FOR COMING IN.
>> MY PLEASURE. >> IT IS OBVIOUSLY EARLY FOR US
TO BE GETTING INDIRECT CORRECT DETAILS OF THIS, LET ALONE ANY
UNDERSTANDING WHO MAY HAVE CAUSED THIS.
IS THERE ANYTHING YOU'RE ABLE TO SEE OR REPORT ON IN TERRORIST
CIRCLES ONLINE? >> THE OBVIOUS QUESTION IS THIS
THE ISLAMIC STATE OR AL QAEDA? NEITHER GROUP AT THIS POINT HAS
CLAIMED THIS ATTACK. WHAT WE KNOW FROM PAST ATTACKS
IT TAKES THEM SEVERAL HOURS, SOMETIMES UP TO A DAY TO CLAIM
THEM. IF THE REPORTING IS CORRECT AND
INDEED THIS WAS A SUICIDE BOMBER, AND HE IS NOW DEAD, AND
HE HAPPENS TO BE FROM ONE OF THESE TWO GROUPS, WE WILL EXPECT
A CLAIM OF RESPONSIBILITY. WE'VE SEEN IN THE PAST THAT WHEN
THE ATTACKER'S STILL AT LARGE, ISIS WILL NOT CLAIM IT.
THE SPECULATION AROUND THAT IS THEY DON'T WANT TO COMPLICATE
THAT PERSON'S INVESTIGATION. BUT IF THE REPORTING IS CORRECT
AND THIS PERSON IS NOW DEAD, THEN THAT CLEARS THE PATH FOR
THAT. ONE QUESTION THAT I HAVE IS WHAT
IS THE TYPE OF EXPLOSIVE THAT WAS USED?
AL QAEDA USED A VARIETY OF EXPLOSIVES IN THE TYPES OF
ATTACKS THEY'VE DONE IN EUROP ISIS BY CONTRAST HAS BEEN RATHER
PREDICTABLE. THEY USE SOMETHING CALLEDTATP.
INVESTIGATORS SHOULD KNOW QUICKLY JUST BY TESTING THE
RESIDUE OF THE MATERIAL THAT IS LEFT AT THE SCENE WHETHER IT IS
A PER ROCKS SIDE BASED EXPLOSIVE.
IF THAT IS THE CASE, IN MY MIND, IT RAISES THE PROBABILITY THAT
IT IS ISIS BECAUSE IN SO MANY ATTACKS, THIS IS THE TYPE OF
SIGNATURE THEY'VE LEFT INCLUDING AT THE PARIS ATTACKS, INCLUDING
THE VEV YAY ATTACK AND THE BRUSSELS BOMBING.
>> YOU'RE SAYING ISIS BASICALLY ALWAYS USES TAPTP.
>> IN EUROPE. >> IS IT TRUE OTHER GROUPS DON'T
USE THAT? >> AL QAEDA HAS UNIVERSITY IT,
BUT THEY'RE MUCH MORE VARIED. THEY USE SOMETHING ALL DAY HTMD.
THESE ACK NIMS DON'T MEAN MUCH TO THE VIEWERS, BUT IT WOULD
SUGGEST DIFFERENT COMPOUNDS AND DIFFERENT WAYS OF MAKING THEM.
ISIS SEEMS TO HAVE A KPOET FOR THIS BECAUSE WE'VE SEEN, THEATP
BEING USED OVER AND OVER AGAIN IN WESTERN EUROPE AND THERE'S A
GOOD REASON FOR THAT, WHICH IS THAT TIE ACETONE PER ROCKS SIDE
IS MADE FROM ACETONE AND PER ROCKS SIDE.
>> BOTH EASILY OBTAINABLE THINGS.
AFTER THE ATTACKS WE'VE SEEN IN EUROPE, HAVE THERE BEEN ANY
EFFORTS TO TRY TO PREVENT PEOPLE OR AT LEAST ALERT WHENEVER
PEOPLE BUY THOSE THINGS IN SUFFICIENT QUANTITIES?
>> THAT'S THE PROBLEM. YOU DON'T NEED NORMS QUANTITIES
OF THEM. AND THESE ARE THINGS -- ACETONE
IS USED IN THINGS WE USE IN OUR HOMES.
PER ROCK SIDE IS USED TO MAKE BLOND.
BUT THAT IS WHY IT'S IDEAL FOR USE IN EUROPE BECAUSE IT DOESN'T
SET OFF THE TRIP WIRES THAT OTHER TYPES OF EXPLOSIVE WOULD.
>> ARE YOU SEEING ANYTHING IN TERMS OF CHEERING?
GRATIFICATIONS. >> YES, ENORMOUS CELEBRATIONS,
DISGUSTING TO WASH. THEY'VE CREATED A
HASHTAG #MANCHESTER. THEY'RE REPOSTING THE PAST
THREATS AND POSTERS THEY'VE MADE TARGETING ENGLAND.
WHEN THE PARIS ATTACK HAPPENED, THERE WAS A VIDEO THAT WAS
RELEASED BY THE ATTACKERS THAT SHOWED THEM IN IRAQ AND SYRIA
PLUME BLY CARRYING OUT BEHEADINGS AND OTHER ATROCITIES.
THE NEXT WAS THE UNITED KINGDOM. THAT WAS IN NOVEMBER IN 2015
AND, OF COURSE, NOTHING HAPPENED AFTER THAT.
THAT IS THE PUZZLING THING ABOUT ISIS AND THE UNITED KINGDOM A
VERY LARGE NUMBER OF FIGHTERS ARE FROM THE UK.
JIHADI JOHN WAS BRITISH. BUT WE'VE SEEN FAR LESS ATTACKS
IN BRITAIN THAN WE'VE SEEN, FOR EXAMPLE, IN BELGIUM AND FRANCE.
EVEN THOUGH THE NUMBERS OF FIGHTERS ARE ROUGHLY SIMILAR.
>> IT WAS NOTED EARLIER, I SHOULD TELL YOU WE ARE EXPECTING
A NEWS CONFERENCE FROM MANCHESTER POLICE IN A MOMENT.
THERE IS AN ANNIVERSARY HERE IN TERMS OF BRITISH ATTACKS, THAT
THE LEE RIG BY ATTACK THIS UNBELIEVABLE GRAPHIC ATTACK ON A
BRITISH SOLDIER WHO WAS BEHEADED IN THE MIDDLE OF A STREET ON
CAMERA, THAT WAS MAY 22nd, 2013. OBVIOUSLY WE DON'T KNOW IF
THAT'S SIGNIFICANT. MIGHT BE A COINCIDENCE.
DID THAT STRIKE YOU AS A RELEVANT FACTOR TO LOOK AT IN
TERMS OF ASCERTAINING WHAT HAPPENED?
>> THAT'S A UNIVERSAL WAY IN TERMS OF THE TERROR GROUP WE
KNOW AS ISIS AT LEAST. IN 2013 ISIS HAD NOT YET
DECLARED ITS CALIPHATE, FOR EXAMPLE.
AT THAT POINT AL QAEDA WAS REALLY THE BIG DOG ON THE SCENE.
SO AT THIS POINT COUNTERTERRORISM OFFICIALS THAT
I SPEAK TO SAY ISIS HAS A GREATER CAPABILITY OF CARRYING
OUT THESE ATTACKS THAN AL QAEDA.
CHARLIE HEBDO WAS ISIS. >> WHAT DIRECTION DOES IT EFFECT
ITS ABILITY TO PROJECT FORCE IN EUROPE OUTSIDE ITS BOUNDS OF
TERRITORY THAT IT CONTROLS? >> THE NARRATIVE WE'VE HARDER
OUT OF WASHINGTON AND CAPITALS IN EUROPE AS ISIS' CALIPHATE IS
SHRINKING AND COMING UNDER PRESSURE THAT THEY'RE GOING TO
WASH OUT. THAT SOUND LIKE IT MAKES SENSE,
UNFORTUNATELY THE DATA DOESN'T BACK IT UP BECAUSE THE FIRST
ATTEMPTED ATTACKS IN EUROPE WERE BY FIGHTERS WHO LEFT IRAQ AND
SYRIA LONG BEFORE AIR STRIKES BEGAN.
THERE HAVE BEEN SO MANY FOILED ATTACKS BEFORE THEN, AND IN THE
VERY DECLARATION OF THE CALIPHATE, THE SPOKESMAN OF ISIS
SPOKE ABOUT TARGETING THE REST. SO IN MY OPINION THESE TWO
OBJECTIVITIES, HOLDING GROUND, GOVERNING A TERRITORY AND HAIGHT
THE WEST, ARE TWIN GOALS OF THE ISLAMIC STATE AND I DON'T
BELIEVE THERE'S A RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN THE PRESSURE THEY'RE
FACING NOW AND ATTEMPTS TO STRIKE OUT.
>> "NEW YORK TIMES" CORRESPONDENT WHO FOCUSES ON AL
QAEDA AND ISIS. NO CLAIMS OF RESPONSIBILITY
HERE. POLICE ARE TREATING THIS AS A
TERRORIST INCIDENT. THE WORKING HYPOTHESIS IS IT WAS
A SUICIDE BOMBER. NO CLAIMS OF RESPONSIBILITY YET,
BUT LOTS OF CELEBRATING AS YOU
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