>>> IT MAY HAVE TAKEN A LONG TIME TO DO IT AT THE PACE OF
THIS WEEK'S NEWS, BUT TODAY THE WHITE HOUSE DENIED A "NEW YORK
TIMES" ARTICLE THAT WAS PUBLISHED YESTERDAY THAT
REPORTED MICHAEL FLYNN TOLD THE TRUMP TRANSITION TEAM WEEKS
BEFORE THE INAUGURATION THAT HE WAS UNDER FBI INVESTIGATION.
A WHITE HOUSE SPOKESPERSON TOLD NBC NEWS "THE NEW YORK TIMES"
STORY IS FLAT WRONG. NEITHER MICHAEL FLYNN NOR HIS
ATTORNEYS TOLD TRANSITION COUNSEL THAT HE WAS UNDER
FEDERAL INVESTIGATION FOR SECRETLY WORKINGKING AS A PAID
LOBBYIST FOR TURKEY DURING THE CAMPAIGN.
ACCORDING TO THE DAILY BEAST, A RELUCTANT MICHAEL FLYNN ACCEPTED
THE POSITION AS NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISER AT THE
PRESIDENT'S URGING. MICHAEL LEADEN, ONE OF GENERAL
FLYNN'S FRIENDS TOLD THE DAILY BEAST HE DID NOT WANT TO BE
NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISER. HE DIDN'T WANT TO BE IN THE
GOVERNMENT. HE WANTED TO GO BACK TO PRIVATE
LIFE, BUT TRUMP INSISTED ON IT. THE DAILY BEAST REPORTS THAT THE
PRESIDENT IS HOPING MICHAEL FLYNN CAN SOME DAY RETURN TO
WORKING IN THE WHITE HOUSE AFTER BEING EXONERATED IN THIS
INVESTIGATION. A FORMER FBI OFFICIAL AND
GOVERNMENT OFFICIAL TOLD THE BAIL DALY BEAST TRUMP THOUGHT HE
OWED FLYNN FOR HOW THINGS ENDED UP, AND WAS DETERMINED TO CLEAR
FLYNN'S NAME AND BRING HIM BACK TO THE WHITE HOUSE.
THE DAILY BEAST AND YAHOO NEWS BOTH REPORT THAT PRESIDENT TRUMP
AND MICHAEL FLYNN ARE STILL IN COMMUNICATION.
ACCORDING TO YOO-HOO NEWS, FLYNN TOLD FRIENDS AT LUNCH LAST
MONTH, I JUST GOT A MESSAGE FROM THE PRESIDENT TO STAY STRONG.
KEN VOGEL AND INDIRA LAKSHMANAN ARE BACK WITH US.
AND KEN, IF THERE IS A SINGLE RULE TO LIVE BY IN LIFE WHEN YOU
KNOW SOMEONE IS UNDER INVESTIGATION BY THE FBI, YOU
JUST WAIT. YOU WAIT.
YOU DO NOT COMMUNICATE WITH THAT PERSON.
YOU DON'T E-MAIL, YOU DON'T CALL, DON'T MEET THEM FOR
COFFEE. JUST WAIT UNTIL THAT'S OVER.
THE NOTION THAT THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES MIGHT BE
REACHING OUT TO AND COMMUNICATING DIRECTLY OR
INDIRECTLY WITH MICHAEL FLYNN UNDER AN FBI INVESTIGATION
COULD --ULD -- THERE IS JUST NOO FINISH THE QUESTION I HAVE HERE.
THIS IS WHERE WE ARE. THIS IS WHAT HE MAY BE DOING.
>> I WOULD ADD SOME ADDITIONAL REPORTING THAT VERY MUCH FITS IN
THAT SAME VEIN, LAWRENCE, WHICH IS WE UNDERSTAND THAT TRUMP
CONTINUED TO TALK TO PAUL MANAFORT, HIS FORMER CAMPAIGN
CHAIRMAN WHO IS VERY MUCH A SUBJECT OF THIS INVESTIGATION.
NOW WE LEARN A TARGET OF THIS INVESTIGATION AFTER IT WAS
REVEALED THAT THE FBI WAS POKING AROUND ON PAUL MANAFORT'S
DEALINGS WITH THESE PRO-RUSSIAN OLIGARCHS AND POLITICAL PARTIES
IN UKRAINE. AND IT FITS SORT OF A BROADER
PATTERN AS MUCH AS TRUMP -- AS MANY TIMES AS HE SAID "YOU'RE
FIRED" ON "THE APPRENTICE," HE ACTUALLY SORT OF REMAINS LOYAL
TO THESE PEOPLE AND HE JUST CAN'T QUIT THEM.
HE HAS OTHER PEOPLE FIRE THEM AND HE REMAINS IN TOUCH WITH
THEM. HE SAW COREY LEWANDOWSKI, HIS
FIRED CAMPAIGN MANAGER IN THE WHITE HOUSE THIS WEEK TELLING
PEOPLE THAT TRUMP WANTED HIM TO COME BACK, TO COME TO WORK FOR
HIM IN THE WHITE HOUSE. AND WE SEE HIM CONTINUING TO
TALK TO PAUL MANAFORT WELL AFTER HE SHOULD HAVE CUT OFF
CONNECTIONS, AND THEN, AGAIN WITH MICHAEL FLYNN.
IT SHOWS A REAL LIKE A LOYALTY, BUT KIND OF A MISGUIDED LOYALTY
WHERE HE IS NOT -- HE IS NOT BAING THIS ON POLITICAL
CALCULATIONS, BUT RATHER WITH WHOM HE FEELS COMFORTABLE.
>> BUT INDIRA, THIS SAME MAN IN HIS BUSINESS CAREER AND IN HIS
PERSONAL LIFE HAS MANY, MANY, MANY MOMENTS WHERE HE COMPLETELY
CUTS OFF RELATIONS WITH PEOPLE. HE HAS DONE IT PUBLICLY SINCE HE
BECAME A PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE, CUT OFF RELATIONS WITH PEOPLE
WHO HE SEEMED TO BE VERY, VERY CHUMMY WITH.
AND YET WITH MICHAEL FLYNN UNDER FBI INVESTIGATION, MANAFORT NOW
AS KEN'S REPORTING TO US, AND THE REASON TO KEEP THOSE PEOPLE
CLOSE, IF YOU'RE LOOKING FOR A RATIONAL REASON IS THAT THEY
MIGHT BE ABLE TO HURT YOU. >> WELL, THAT'S ONE RATIONALE.
I ALSO AGREE WITH KEN THAT TRUMP DOES HAVE HIS OWN BRAND OF
LOYALTY. AND HE CLEARLY GOES BY THE GUT
AND WHO HE FEELS COMFORTABLE WITH, WHO HE TRUSTS.
AND THESE ARE MEN WHO HE TRUSTS AND WHO HE STILL FEELS A LOYALTY
TO. THE PROBLEM IS THIS KIND OF
BUSINESS, KEEPING IN TOUCH WITH PEOPLE WHO ARE UNDER FEDERAL
INVESTIGATION AND MIGHT AT SOME POINT POSSIBLY BE INDICTED IS
SOMETHING THAT GOT NIXON IN TROUBLE, LET'S NOT FORGET.
COMMUNICATING WITH WITNESSES IS SOMETHING VERY BASIC THAT ANY
LAWYER, IF TRUMP HAD A GOOD LAWYER ADVISING HIM, WOULD TELL
HIM STOP TALKING TO THESE PEOPLE.
THEY'RE UNDER INVESTIGATION. AND AS WE KNOW FROM SENATOR
LINDSEY GRAHAM, AFTER HIS TALK WITH ROD ROSENSTEIN, THE DEPUTY
ATTORNEY GENERAL, THIS APPEARS TO BE A CRIMINAL INVESTIGATION.
AND SO YOU WOULD THINK THAT IF HE HAD HIS WITS ABOUT HIM AND
WERE LISTENING TO THE ADVICE, THAT DONALD TRUMP WOULD CUT OFF
ALL CONTACT, BUT HE HASN'T. I THINK THE LARGER ISSUE IS THIS
TROUBLING QUESTION OF WHETHER IN FACT MICHAEL FLYNN HAD INFORMED
THE TRANSITION THEME HE HAD TAKEN OVER HALF A MILLION
DOLLARS FROM A DUTCH COMPANY TO LOBBY BASICALLY FOR INTERESTS ON
BEHALF OF THE TURKISH GOVERNMENT.
AND THERE WAS SOME VERY INTERESTING REPORTING OUT OF
McCLATCHY YESTERDAY SHOWING THAT HE MIGHT HAVE IN FACT STOPPED AN
OPERATION BACKING THE SYRIAN KURDS BECAUSE IT WAS SOMETHING
THAT WAS AGAINST THE WISHES OF THE TURKISH GOVERNMENT.
SO IT RAISES ALL SORTS OF QUESTIONS THAT AN INCOMING
NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISER WOULD ALREADY BE UNDER INVESTIGATION.
OF COURSE IT WOULD BE IN FLYNN'S INTEREST TO NOW PUT OUT TO THE
PRESS THAT HE HAD INFORMED THE TRANSITION TEAM -- WE DON'T
KNOW. BUT "THE NEW YORK TIMES" IS
REPORTING THAT HE HAD. SO LET'S NOT FORGET CIRCLE BACK
TO MIKE PENCE, THE VICE PRESIDENT, WHO HAS AVOIDED A LOT
OF ATTENTION. BUT HE IN FACT WAS THE HEAD OF
DONALD TRUMP'S TRANSITION TEAM. SO IF HE TRULY DIDN'T KNOW ABOUT
THIS AT THE TIME, THAT ALSO RAISES BIG QUESTION MARKS I
THINK FOR EVERYONE. SO LET'S NOT FORGET THAT.
>> KEN, I WANT TO GET YOUR INTERPRETATION OF THIS WHITE
HOUSE DENIAL ABOUT MICHAEL FLYNN TELLING THE THEN FUTURE WHITE
HOUSE COUNSEL THAT HE WAS UNDER INVESTIGATION.
HE SAID THEY DENY THAT HE SAID HE THAT HE WAS UNDER FEDERAL
INVESTIGATION FOR SECRETLY WORKING AS A PAID LOBBYIST FOR
TURKEY DURING THE CAMPAIGN. DOES THAT LEAVE IT OPEN TO YOU,
THE POSSIBILITY THAT FLYNN SAID SOMETHING ABOUT A FEDERAL
INVESTIGATION BUT DIDN'T SPECIFY THAT IT WAS ABOUT BEING A
LOBBYIST FOR TURKEY? >> SURE.
I MEAN, THAT IS THE ISSUE. I WANT TO ADD SOMETHING OWHAT
INDIRA JUST SAID WHICH IS A GREAT SUMMATION OF HIS WORK ON
BEHALF OF THIS DUTCH COMPANY OWNED BY A TURKISH GUY.
WE ACTUALLY REPORTED -- IT DIDN'T GET A TON OF ATTENTION AT
THE TIME -- BUT THIS TURKISH GUY THAT OWNS THIS COMPANY THAT PAID
MICHAEL FLYNN MORE THAN $500,000 TO LOBBY FOR HIM ACTUALLY HAS
DEEP TIES TO VLADIMIR PUTIN. THAT WAS REVEALED IN A 2009
LAWSUIT. SO THERE IS A LOT MORE THERE
THAN JUST THE VERY FINE WAY THE WHITE HOUSE ISSUED THAT DENIAL.
I WOULD AGREE WITH YOU IT CERTAINLY LEAVES A LOT OF WIGGLE
ROOM, AND IT'S CONSISTENT WITH SOME OF THEIR DENIALS THAT THEY
HAVE PUT FORTH ON SOME OF THESE OTHER THING, ONLY TO BE UNDERCUT
IN MANY CASES BY DONALD TRUMP HIMSELF COMING OUT AND SAYING
SOMETHING CONTRARY TO IT, OR IN OTHER CASES BY OTHER PEOPLE IN
THE ADMINISTRATION OR SUBSEQUENT MEDIA REPORTING REVEALING THAT
THEIR DENIAL, WHILE IT MAY HAVE SEEMED VERY ARDENT AND
CATEGORICAL IN FACT WAS NOT QUITE.
SO THAT THERE WAS SOME WIGGLE ROOM THERE AND THAT THERE WAS
SOME THERE THERE IN THE INITIAL REPORT.
>> KEN VOGEL, CHIEF INVESTIGATIVE REPORTER FOR
POLITICO. THANK YOU FOR JOINING US
TONIGHT.
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