Do you receive governmental support?
On the 23th of August,
well...
We went to the Forest Service,
well...
we went there to ask them
to bring us Sunuke from the national forest
Mr. Aramaki (Aramaki Budogu Mokojo) Mr. Matsuzaki (Matsuzaki Bokuto Seisakujo) and me, the three of us.
Because there is no Sunuke on the market
we went there to ask them to cut Sunuke from the national forest.
Because by now
it is no longer about just cutting, but rather about planting.
It's about protecting the forest.
Because we are in this business
we can't do our work if they don't provide us with timber
and that the Miyazaki Prefecture produces 90% of all made in Japan Bokken.
that's what we explained to the Forest Service
to ask the state to provide us with timber from national forests.
[Jordy: So how was it?]
Well, it's difficult!
But... at least,
as far as they're concerned
the Miyazaki (prefecture) can try to make a request to the state
but because now it's more about planting and protecting the forest
I think it might be difficult but we make a request just in case.
We can't do more than this,
and that's even what we're told visiting the Forest Service, .
Just about a week ago
we went there
I don't know how things will go from here.
That's all we can do...
Actually, in the case a Typhoon comes and mountain paths are destroyed
trees around the destroyed paths have to be cut down because they impede the repair work
which is why we sometimes get Sunuke.
So as long as there is no kind of disaster
they won't let us get any (Sunuke).
For example when you need access to the scene of a natural disaster
small mountain paths are inconvenient.
In that case you have to construct large roads
and cut down the surrounding trees.
That's why we sometimes have access to timber.
But outside of these circumstances, there isn't any.
Because it's the national forest.
Have you got descendants or other relatives who could carry on your tradition?
Yes, but..
because the future (of this kind of business) is unclear at the moment
they are still doing different work.
At the moment there is international demand
but after this long stagnation
I don't really know if I want my son to succeed me
Instead of struggling in this business I think it's better that he continues his current job
But he says he is going to succeed me.
If I told him to come back I think he would immediately work here
Don't you think you should raise your prices to insure a better life and a better future?
Well...
The last time we rose our prices
was 20 years ago.
Because the price hasn't changed for 20 years
I think I will raise the prices soon
I have no choice but to do so.
If the price for timber rises even just a little bit,
I can't help it but raise the prices.
Because the price for material hasn't changed,
we were somehow managing to continue with our current prices
But because the cost for everything else has risen
over the last 20 years...
If the material costs increase just a little bit
I have to raise the prices or else I can't continue my Bokken business
Don't you fear the industry might disappear?
The question is what will happen when I can't do this work anymore.
But I think the business will not disappear completely
because somebody will succeed it.
We have to build an easier to work environment for the future generations to come.
or nobody will be willing to do it.
Even young people, despite the fact it's a job where you get dirty and covered in dust,
if you pay appropriately for this work, they would do the job.
But at the moment this is a job with low salary while also getting dirty.
No wonder everyone is discouraged.
If raising the price is a viable business options, then
it would be no problem to hire more regular workers.
But because I can't pay more than a minimum wage
even regular workers are immediately quitting this job.
It is not like I want to make profit
I'm fine with an income that ensures a standard living
But now, I'm not attaining that standard.
Actually, Miyazaki is the prefecture
with the lowest income in Japan.
That's Miyazaki!
But because
on the other hand, you can get along easily
due to the low commodity prices, making it easy to live here.
So you can somehow get along with a minimum wage
but compared to the whole country
Miyazaki has the worst income level.
That's why until 20 years ago,
once every five years I raised the prices.
And then my Bokken stopped to sell well
because of that experience.
Not I as a manufacturing business but the retail stores claim
they are not able to raise the prices in such a recession.
That's why I kept them the same.
And stopped to raise them once every five years
That's why it stayed the same all along
But although my prices haven't changed since then
the retail store prices have risen.
Even though I refrain from raising them the retail stores don't.
Although I'm patiently keeping the prices down...
If they would have a look they would understand
that my job is not inserting wood into a machine and then it's done,
there's still plenty of handmade tasks to achieve Bokken.
But that's what they don't understand.
They think a Bokken is made by just putting it through a machine.
That topic cast a cloud over the amosphere....
In the traditional caste system of the Edo period, warlords and Samurai were at the top,
followed by peasants, then craftsmen, and finally, at the very bottom of the pyramid, were the merchants.
In a time where people and companies are judged by how much money they make,
we have to take a step back and remember that those who grow food and manufacture tools ensure the production of essential goods.
Aren't they more important and should be ranked higher than those who only trade the products?
Isn't that the merchants who should be at the service of craftsmen and peasants?
About a year ago a Japanese Budo equipment company started selling made in China Bokken. What do you think about this?
That's why...
Shinai (bamboo sword) workshops as well as
Bogu workshops (protective equipment for Kendo) have disappeared completely.
The only businesses remaining are the Bokken workshops.
For now, we're struggling,
trying to protect our workshops.
But if Chinese made Bokken are going to be of similar quality as ours
it is certain that...
- and right now there are just about 30 people left in Japan manufacturing Bokken in the workshops -
... our business will disappear completely.
Well...
Because the costs of the production of Made in China commodities
are about equal to only the material costs in Japan
We can't compete with that
Because the quality is still bad, we can deal with it somehow.
But if they manage to produce a similar product in terms of quality we won't be able to compete.
That's why Shinai workshops
and Bogu workshops...
So the reason why Shinai workshops and the like
have disappeared is that
because the costs for a Chinese product equals the Japanese material costs.
So Japanese products can't be sold anymore.
If the quality of Chinese products reaches
the quality of the Japanese ones,
people [retailers] will buy Chinese products.
Bokken workshops have decided
to not leak information about our techniques.
It's a tacit understanding.
None of us would do that.
In case somebody would,
the 30 regular workers providing the whole country with Bokken
could be replaced by 40 to 50 workers in a factory in China
and that would be our end.
If somebody would go there to teach them
Simply put, if for example
I would be the factory manager for a Chinese factory
and taught them everything they need to know to manufacture Bokken,
they would be able to produce the same product, right?
They would produce the same product and even if there was a slight difference in quality.
But by making such similar Bokken, the cheaper version would be bought, don't you think?
For half the price everyone would buy the Chinese version.
The reason why this is not yet the case
lies in the fact that there is a huge variety of Bokken.
So if they wanted to produce a standard shape Bokken
they could already copy it.
But because there are over a hundred sorts
of Bokken from different schools,
so as long as there's no craftsman who understands all of these differences
you can't properly produce a similar product.
What do you like the most about making Bokken?
I didn't enter this business because I liked it, at the beginning I mean.
I just followed my parents who were doing it.
That's why in the beginning
I didn't like it at all.
I couldn't understand why...
As I've said before
my parents built up a business which is not profitable.
So if I was supposed to succeed them they could've at least built up a more lucrative business.
That's what I thought for a long time..
When I was 50...
About the time before I turned 50,
there was a phase when I considered to quit.
Although considering to quit,
I couldn't make up my mind on what to do.
And as I thought about everything up to then
I realised how much effort I had put into certain things,
by just producing Bokken.
After I decided I might quit this job
I wanted to do the best I can a last time,
and if I still would't want to continue it, I'd quit.
Since then I changed my mind...my heart.
Since then, I'm
enjoying my work.
Creating one after another,
and if you think about it, it's not just producing the same thing over and over again.
The products you create today are different from those you create tomorrow.
So, since I changed my mind and I began to have a good time
enjoying to produce Bokken,
I realized, that after all this job suits me the best.
That's what I thought.
Are there things you don't want to do anymore?
Well... as I grew older
heavy things became a problem.
Sometimes I've to lift 5 kg or 10 kg and think that this is getting exhausting.
Also,
if I was to decide...
Instead of producing dozens of Bokken a day I'd like to
just make 4 or 5 a day,
considering my age.
So I could focus on a really nice finish.
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