What's up guys Rogue-9 here and first off, I want to thank each and every one of you
who provided great feedback and raised additional questions on my last video exploring Crouch
Spam in Rainbow Six Siege.
Many of you quite rightfully pointed out that my test were rather clinical in nature and
that I should try to run my test again; this time with the most extreme crouch and lean
spam possible with added lag thrown in.
So that's what I've done and I have to admit, you were kind of right!
There was a small difference in the results; let's go and take a look.
Before looking at the new experiments, I think that one more fundamental aspect of Siege
that is worth knowing about is exactly when the game counts shots as having been fired.
There are all kind of cues that we could look at, including muzzle flash, the time at which
recoil sets in, the sound of the gun going off but I find all of those to be less than
reliable at giving us the exact moments that a shot is fired.
The best way of telling when a shot is fired is by looking at the ammo count.
The game counts a shot as fired on (or slightly before) the ammo counter is adjusted down by one bullet.
The discrepancy we see in this comes from the limited framerate that most people (including me) will record at.
At 60 FPS, the shot could fall right in between two frames and that's why it could be just
that little bit earlier than the ammo counter decrease.
This occasional discrepancy can already lead to confusing cases where an apparently blatant
head shot does not seem to count but for the most part, the ammo counter does provide us
with the most accurate indication of when a shot is actually fired.
In terms of my experimental setup this time around, I ran my tests on a custom server
very kindly set up by Rogue-9 Discord member TexMex.
The game was held on the US West data centres, resulting in a ping of around 133ms for both
me and Pogo91 and I think two players with a ping of over 130 fighting against each other
will be a great way to see what effect lag can have on crouch and lean spamming.
After synchronising the clocks on both sets of footage, we can see that the delay between
me making a certain move on the right hand footage and that move appearing on the third
person view on the left is around 11 frames or 183.3ms.
In addition to adding lag into the equation, our tests were also much less clinical this time.
I made a few changes to my control settings to unleash the daemon that secretly lurks
within each three speed operator and as you can see, the results were quite spectacular…
and not in a good way.
Now before I get into an analysis of the results of these tests, let me first re-iterate my
conclusion from the last video.
Whether this tactic breaks the hitbox or not is almost irrelevant.
There is no argument that turning your character into Agent Smith hands down gives you an advantage.
It makes your head almost impossible to track for most opponents and can be an extremely
effective tactic at winning gunfights (especially if it is unexpected).
In my personal opinion, nonsense like this does not belong in a modern day shooter of
any kind, let alone a tactical shooter such as Rainbow Six!
So irrespective of the results of my new tests, I still believe that crouch spam is a cheesy,
yet sadly also effective, tactic that should be removed from the game.
And of course, if this tactic somehow messes with the hit detection in addition to making
you harder to hit, then it simply becomes an exploit rather than just a tactic and it
really needs to be tackled by the devs as soon as possible.
So let's look at some slow motion footage to see what's up!
Same as last time, I divided my tests into two parts.
First using the friendly fire indicator to try to assess how the hitbox moves in relation
to the player model and then following up these tests with some live fire drills to
confirm the initial findings.
I ran both sets of tests twice, once with lag and once without to see if the quick spam
on its own makes a difference or if added lag was the deciding factor.
After going over the test footage frame by frame, I would say the results from the extreme
crouch spam, without lag, were pretty much identical to the clean tests I ran during my first trials.
Sometimes the hit indicator was delayed by a frame and what should have been a clear headshot, was not.
Conversely, sometimes the delay worked in favour of the opponent and still indicated
a headshot at times where it shouldn't have been but in all cases, we are talking about
a single frame and shots that would have been pretty close either way.
In a competitive shooter, where a single bullet can kill and every millisecond counts, even
desync as little as a couple of centimetres can affect the outcome of a gunfight and that's not great.
But as far as I could tell, the problems weren't actually any worse with the extreme spam compared
to the clean tests.
Once we add a bit of lag into the equation though, I think the results did change a little bit.
Firstly of course, we are dealing with a peeker's advantage of around 180ms, which will exacerbate
any issues we face in the game (as well as exacerbating out frustration levels).
But in addition to that, I would also say that the examples of hit detection problems
I found tended to be a little more extreme.
Basically what we are still seeing is kind of a ghosting effect where the hit detection
will occasionally lag one frame behind.
Sometimes when the reticule is already over the head, it doesn't register the shot yet
and sometimes when the reticule is already off of the head, it still does.
The effect is amplified even more when the target strafes left and right and the shooter
is forced to adjust their aim BUT at the end of the day, I would still say that using this
tactic is not an automatic win for the spammer.
My later live fire tests confirmed 100% that this kind of extreme spam does not make you
invulnerable in anyway.
It's basically a 50/50 chance whether you end up dodging a shot that should have hit
your head or whether you get hit by a shot that should have missed.
At the end of the day, my final conclusion kind of stays the same.
Crouch spam (and especially extreme crouch spam) should definitely be removed from Rainbow
Six and when a player modifies their controls to pull of some kind of Agent Smith moves,
it will definitely make them harder to track and thereby give them an advantage.
But, despite the additional bit of desync between the hitbox and the character model
we see with added lag, the hitbox is still present and just as large as usual.
I personally would still say that most of the advantage of this tactic comes from confusing
the aim of your opponent rather than somehow causing temporary invulnerability.
The advice that I would come away with is that probably the best way to combat this
kind of extreme crouch spam is to forget about trying to track the head as it moves and to
just spray full auto at chest height.
By doing this, you are giving yourself a very realistic chance of hitting the head anyway,
despite how ridiculously broken these moves makes your opponent look.
In essence: does it look dumb?
Yes!
Does it give spammers an advantage?
Yes!
Does lag make it worse?
Yes!
But does the advantage come from any serious hitbox desync?
No, not as far as I can tell!
If you want to see how much of an advantage super spam can provide just look at this clip
where I am playing as Jäger and I give Ella a very decent chance at killing me before
I simply aim at er head and shoot back…
GG EZ.
And ok, at this stage I am a one shot kill, so why not let Lion have a crack at me as well.
I wait until I see him aiming down sights at me (and keep in mind that my 133ms ping
is giving him an additional head start) and before he has the confidence in his aim to
even start shooting at me, I simply click on his head; job done!
Advantage yes but not because of broken hitboxes.
Once again, thank you to everyone who posted follow up questions on my initial tests and
for the great conversations and debates in the comments section of my original video.
I hope that my follow up tests have helped to provide some additional clarity on the
issue and, broken hitbox or not, I do hope that the devs are looking into this problem
before everyone starts mucking around in their control settings and starts "Agent Smithing"
around every corner, of every map, in every round, of every match.
That would be really silly and I think most players will agree that that is not something
we really want to see in Siege.
And that's it, thank you everyone for watching, as always I hope you enjoyed the video and
I will see you in the next episode!
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