-This is a fantastic documentary.
And like a lot of my favorite documentaries,
it feels like the subject sort of turns
based on what you discover over the course of making it.
It begins with you doping yourself
in a way that will evade testing.
Avoid -- get away from testing.
-Exactly. -And you use a Russian scientist
that we saw in the clip, Grigory Rodchenkov.
Am I saying that right? -Yes, Grigory Rodchenkov.
-And so were you honest with him
in what you were trying to do here,
which was to expose sort of, you know, the --
how people hide doping?
-Well, I was.
I came to him with this idea,
and that's a whole other story, how I get led to him.
But essentially, you know,
Lance Armstrong had evaded 500 anti-doping controls clean.
So I'm going, "Wait. What is wrong with the system?"
Not, "What is wrong with Lance?"
And in this investigative journey,
I get led to Grigory.
And I go to Grigory and I said,
"Hey, will you help me dope and evade positive detection
and teach me how to game the system?"
And he goes... [ Russian accent ] "Yes."
-Yeah. [ Laughter ]
And it's interesting because this was, you know,
a man who is behind the Russian athletic program
basically doping and avoiding being caught.
And yet he comes across, as in that clip,
he's a very loveable character.
Did you hit it off with him right away?
-Well, the amazing thing about this guy, as you see --
I mean, he's loveable. He's likable. He's funny.
He's garrulous, and then he has this side to him
which you could never imagine,
which is, essentially, he was the mastermind
of Russia's state-sponsored doping program.
And he wasn't just doping all the track and field athletes.
He was doping pretty much
all Russian athletes across all sport,
and this program was in place the last 40 years.
And in so doing, Russia essentially stole
thousands and thousands and thousands of medals
from clean athletes all over the world,
not to mention all the American athletes.
And Grigory was the mastermind of this program,
which I don't condone.
And on the other hand, he is this incredibly warm
and likable and loveable character.
-I can't believe, with everything else he did,
he had time to be in a documentary.
[ Laughter ] -You know, and that is the --
and that is the amazing thing about it, right?
I first started talking to him right after the Sochi Olympics.
And his job at Sochi is he's running the lab.
And what he's doing at 3:00 in the morning is,
he, with the help of the FSB, the KGB,
are breaking into these urine collection bottles
and dumping out the dirty steroid urine
of all the Russian athletes and swapping in clean urine.
So this is what he's doing, essentially,
while I'm corresponding with him.
And so the fact that he had time to come to Los Angeles
and smuggle my urine back to Russia to be tested,
I mean, it is mind-boggling.
-Now during this, he basically
has to flee Russia... -Yes.
-...because a report comes out --
Tell us real quick about that.
-So we had been working together at this point
for almost two years.
And the second year that we're working together,
there is an investigation that's been launched by WADA,
the World Anti-Doping Agency.
And this investigation was launched
because of this German television documentary.
And it's alleging that there is
a state-sponsored system in Russia to dope the athletes,
and Grigory is under investigation.
November 2015, they release the findings of these reports.
But it's only track and field at the time.
But it's alleging that this system is true,
and that Grigory is essentially behind it.
And in a period of about five days,
Putin is on state television denying all the allegations.
Not only is he denying it,
he's saying that this is an individual act,
and anybody who was part of this
will be held individually responsible
and punishment will be absolute.
And Grigory and I are Skyping,
and we're having a conversation about five days after.
He has two FSB, KGB agents living in his home,
"guarding" him.
He tells me that there is a suicide plan in place,
that they're gonna kill him,
and that he needs to get out of Moscow.
And I buy him a plane ticket on my credit card.
Um... It was just -- it was --
I just felt like my friend --
You know, wasn't about a movie at that point.
-And now he's here, but you have not
communicated with him for a while
because he is under now American protection? Is that --
-He is under Federal Protective custody.
So once he gets to Los Angeles, we spend about seven months.
And in these seven months, I compile what is
thousands of documents of evidence
of this fraud, of this scandal.
We bring it to the "New York Times."
This sets off a whole other investigation.
Everything is proved, and at the same time,
the Department of Justice launches their own investigation
into the scandal.
And because they believe that Grigory's life is at risk
and they get intelligence that Russia is going
to essentially do him harm,
he has been in Federal Protective custody
for the last year and two months
with this ongoing investigation by the Department of Justice.
-Well, it is a fantastic story.
It's amazing not only how you found your way to it,
but how you sort of reined it in once you had it.
So thanks for making it.
Thank you so much for being here. I really appreciate it.
-Thank you. Thank you. -Bryan Fogel, everyone.
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