LONGER-TERM STATUS OF PRESIDENT ASSAD WILL BE DECIDED BY THE
SYRIAN PEOPLE. >> HELLO, EVERYONE.
WELCOME TO "AM JOY," THAT WAS SECRETARY OF STATE REX TILLERSON
LAST THURSDAY SAYING IT WAS UP TO THE SYRIAN PEOPLE TO DECIDE
WHAT TO DO ABOUT THEIR DICTATOR BASHAR AL ASSAD.
EXACTLY ONE WEEK LATER ON THURSDAY APRIL 6th, THE TRUMP
ADMINISTRATION EXECUTED AS SHARP A U-TURN IN FOREIGN POLICY AS WE
HAVE SEEN IN MODERN HISTORY. IN PARTICULAR WHEN IT COMES TO
THE U.S. POSTURE TOWARD SYRIA AND IT'S NOW SIX-YEAR LONG CIVIL
WAR, WHICH BY SOME ESTIMATES KILLED 500,000 PEOPLE.
ONE WEEK AFTER ESSENTIALLY REX TILLERSON SAID IT'S NOT OUR
PROBLEM TRUMP ORDERED AN ATTACK, HIS OWEN CITIZENS REBELLING
AGAINST THE RULE, HORRIFIC IMAGES SPLASHED ACROSS AMERICAN
MEDIA. HOW MUCH OF THIS U-TURN WAS A
CHANGE OF HEART BY DONALD TRUMP OR HOW MUCH OF A U-TURN WAS THIS
CHANGE OF HEART BY DONALD TRUMP? WELL, TRUMP HAS BEEN CLEAR ABOUT
OPPOSING ANY U.S. INTERVENTION IN SYRIA SINCE AT LEAST 2013
WHEN HE POSTED TWEETS LIKE THESE POSTED AT THEN PRESIDENT BARACK
OBAMA. WHAT I AM SAYING IS STAY OUT OF
SYRIA. IN ALL CAPS, AGAIN, TO OUR VERY
FOOLISH LEADER, DO NOT ATTACK SYRIA.
IF YOU DO, MANY BAD THINGS WILL HAPPEN.
FROM THAT FIGHT THE U.S. GETS NOTHING!
. THE WHITE HOUSE TRUMP'S
INVOLVEMENT WENT WELL BEYOND WHAT COULD GENEROUSLY CALLED
BENIGN NEGLECT WHEN HE TRIED TO PASS NOT ONE BUT TWO LEGALLY
CONTESTED TRAVEL BANS AGAINST SYRIAN REFUGEES AND FIVE OTHER
MUSLIM MAJORITY COUNTRIES. WHAT HAPPENED BETWEEN TRUMP
BELIEVING ATTACKING SYRIA WAS FOOLISH AND HIS DECISION TO
LAUNCH 59 CRUISE MISSILES AT SYRIAN AIRFIELD OVER DINNER WITH
CHINESE DELEGATION AT MAR-A-LAGO?
WELL 24 HOURS BEFORE THE AIRSTRIKE DONALD TRUMP MADE A
MAJOR CHANGE TO HIS NATIONAL SECURITY CIRCLE.
ON WEDNESDAY TRUMP SIGNED AND ORDER OUSTING HIS CHIEF STRATH
STRATEGIST STEVE BANNON FROM NATIONAL SECURITIES COMMITTEE,
UNPRECEDENTED POSITION BANNON HELD BECAUSE OF AN EXECUTIVE
ORDER HE PUT IN FRONT OF TRUMP TO SIGN BACK IN JANUARY.
THE NEW ORDER RESTORED PRINCIPLES TO THE COMMITTEE AND
ADDED ENERGY SECRETARY, CIA DIRECTOR AND U.N. AMBASSADOR TO
THE GROUP. THAT'S IMPORTANT FOR TWO
REASONS. ONE HAVING TO DO WITH POLICY AND
OTHER, ONE WHO PUSHED HIM OUT.
REPLACED GENERAL MICHAEL FLYNN AS NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISER
H.R. McMASTER AND TRUMP'S SON-IN-LAW, EXTRA ADVISER
34-YEAR-OLD JARED KUSHNER, WHO JUST THIS WEEK VISITED IRAQ WITH
JOINT CHIEFS CHAIRMAN. WE'LL TALK MORE ABOUT KUSHNER'S
ROLE IN THE WHITE HOUSE LATER. THAT'S NOT ALL.
ON THURSDAY MORNING, THE SAME DAY OF THE SYRIA STRIKES, IN
RESPONSE TO NUMEROUS ACCUSATIONS OF ETHICS VIOLATIONS FOR HIS
HANDLING OF CLASSIFIED INFORMATION INCLUDED POSSIBLY
COORDINATING WITH THE WHITE HOUSE THROUGH A TOP NSC STAFFER
IN THE DEAD OF NIGHT, DEVIN NUNES STEPPED DOWN FROM HIS ROLE
IN INVESTIGATION OF RUSSIA'S ATTEMPT TO HELP ELECT TRUMP.
SPEAKING OF RUSSIA, THE NATION BACKING ASSAD'S RULE IN SYRIA IS
RUSSIA, AND WHO THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION APPARENTLY GAVE A
HEADS UP BEFORE THE ADMINISTRATION'S AIRSTRIKES.
THIS WEEK THEY FOUND CIA WAS BRIEFING MEMBERS OF CONGRESS
LAST AUGUST ABOUT RUSSIA, POSSIBLY COORDINATING WITH TRUMP
ADVISERS TO GET TRUMP INTO THE WHITE HOUSE.
AFTER ALL OF THESE NATIONAL SECURITY SHAKEUPS AND NEW
INFORMATION ABOUT RUSSIA, THE KEY QUESTION IS THIS, WHAT
CHANGED RUSSIA'S MIND ON RUSSIAN-BACKED ASSAD REGIME AND
WHAT WAS THE POINT OF THESE AIRSTRIKES.
JOINING ME REPRESENTATIVE BARBARA LEE FROM CALIFORNIA.
COUNCILWOMAN LEE YOU'RE JUST THE PERSON WE WANT TO TALK TO ON
THIS. YOU HAVE LONG OPPOSED WHAT
YOU'VE SEEN AS INTERFERENCE IN THE MIDDLE EAST AND STARTING
WARS IN THE MIDDLE EAST YOU DIDN'T SEE AS JUSTIFIED.
CAN YOU TELL US IN YOUR VIEW, AT LEAST FROM CAPITOL HILL, WHAT
YOU UNDERSTAND THE PURPOSE OF THESE AIRSTRIKES TO HAVE BEEN?
>> JOY, FIRST OF ALL, THEY ARE TOTAL CHAOS IN THE WHITE HOUSE
AND TOTAL CONFUSION, SO IT'S HARD TO REALLY UNDERSTAND WHAT
THE PURPOSE OF THE STRIKE WAS. WE HAVE TO REALLY RECOGNIZE
THAT, FIRST OF ALL, ASSAD HAS COMMITTED HEINOUS CRIMES AND
KILLED SO MANY PEOPLE AND THE USE OF CHEMICAL WEAPONS IS
UNACCEPTABLE. BUT ALSO WE HAVE TO REALLY
RECOGNIZE THAT ONE SURGICAL STRIKE IS NOT GOING TO CHANGE
THAT. ACTUALLY IT COULD EMBROIL US
MORE IN A CIVIL WAR IN SYRIA. IT'S HARD TO FIGURE OUT WHY THE
PRESIDENT WOULD DO THIS. MINIMALLY HE SHOULD COME TO
CONGRESS TO SEEK AUTHORIZATION AND A VOTE BECAUSE THIS IS AN
ACTIVE WAR AND ILLEGAL. SO FOR THE LIFE OF ME, PEOPLE
NEED TO REALLY ASK THE WHITE HOUSE WHAT IN THE WORLD IS GOING
ON BECAUSE WE DO NOT NEED TO GET EMBROILED IN A CIVIL WAR BUT WE
HAVE TO COME TOGETHER AND HELP FIGURE OUT A POLITICAL
SETTLEMENT TO CARNAGE TAKING PLACE IN SYRIA.
>> YOU TALKED ABOUT COMING TO CONGRESS.
THERE WERE A NUMBER OF INTERESTING BED FELLOWS MADE BY
THIS STRIKE, AMONG THOSE THAT SUPPORTED WHAT DONALD TRUMP DID
IN CONGRESS, OF COURSE JOHN McCAIN AND LINDSEY GRAHAM AND
MARCO RUBIO LONG TIME HAWKS, HOUSE SPEAKER RYAN AND SEVERAL
MEMBERS OF CONGRESS, INCLUDING DEMOCRATS, ELLEN ENGEL -- ELIOT
ENGEL FROM NEW YORK AND BILL NELSON FROM FLORIDA.
IF YOU WANT TO CALL THEM ANTI-TRUMP POLITICIANS WHAT DO
YOU MAKE OF THE CAPITOL HILL SUPPORT PARTICULARLY THE
CONSERVATIVE WING OF THESE STRIKES?
>> PEOPLE REALLY ARE SHOCKED AND ANGRY ABOUT WHAT IS TAKING PLACE
WITH ASSAD. BUT SPEAKING FOR MYSELF, AND
MOST MEMBERS ARE SAYING NOW, THAT THEY THINK THE PRESIDENT
SHOULD HAVE COME TO CONGRESS FOR A VOTE AND AUTHORIZATION.
WE'RE IN RECESS. THE SPEAKER SHOULD CALL US BACK
RIGHT AWAY TO DEBATE THIS. WHEN YOU LISTEN TO THE TRUMP
ADMINISTRATION, THEY ARE TALKING ABOUT MORE TO COME.
WHAT IS THIS? I SAY BASED ON OUR MORAL
COMMITMENT AND HUMANITARIAN VALUES, WE NEED TO CALL FOR A
CEASE-FIRE RIGHT AWAY. THAT'S WHY WE NEED TO COME BACK
TO CONGRESS SO WE CAN DEBATE AND COME FORTH WITH A COMPREHENSIVE
STRATEGY TO BEGIN TO STOP THIS CARNAGE ANDD THIS WAR THAT'S
TAKING PLACE IN SYRIA. >> WE HAVE TO, OF COURSE, TALK
ABOUT THE RUSSIAN PIECE OF THIS, BECAUSE WE KNOW THAT THE ASSAD
REGIME IS BACKED BY RUSSIA, BY VLADIMIR PUTIN'S RUSSIA.
THE REACTION FROM RUSSIA SO FAR TO THE STRIKING "NEW YORK TIMES"
REPORTING RUSSIA IN ADDITION TO SUSPENDING A OVER SYRIA, ACCORD
ACCIDENTAL ENCOUNTERS BETWEEN THE TWO MILITARIES SAID IT WOULD
BOLSTER SYRIA'S AIR DEFENSE SYSTEM AND PLANNING TO SEND A
FRIGATE INTO THE MEDITERRANEAN SEA TO VISIT LOGISTICS BASED IN
TARTUS. IN ADDITION TO THAT WE ALSO HAVE
REPORTING THAT THE AIR BASE THAT WAS HIT MAY NOT HAVE BEEN
DAMAGED ALL THAT MUCH BECAUSE SYRIAN JETS ARE STILL TAKING OFF
FROM THERE. THEY ARE BACK TO TAKING OFF FROM
THERE, ACCORDING TO OBSERVERS. ARE YOU CONCERNED ABOUT AN
ESCALATION WITH RUSSIA WITH WHAT YOU DESCRIBED ABOUT THE
ADMINISTRATION? >> I'M VERY CONCERNED.
THIS WHOLE ISSUE WITH RUSSIA IS VERY TROUBLING AND VERY
DANGEROUS. I HOPE THIS DOESN'T SIDETRACK
THE PUBLIC FROM REALLY RECOGNIZING WE HAVE TO HAVE A
BIPARTISAN COMMISSION TO LOOK AT ALL OF THE ACTIVITIES THAT
RUSSIA THAT BEEN ENGAGED IN IN TERMS OF UNDERMINING OUR
DEMOCRACY. YES, YOU KNOW, ASSAD AND PUTIN'S
RUSSIA AND PUTIN, THEY ARE VERY CLOSE.
IN FACT, WE NEED TO KNOW, AND THE PUBLIC NEEDS TO KNOW, THE
COSTS AND CONSEQUENCES OF WHAT IS TAKING PLACE.
WE HAVE TO IMMEDIATELY, JOY, WHEN YOU LOOK AT WHAT'S TAKING
PLACE WITH CHILDREN AND MEN AND WOMEN IN SYRIA, WE HAVE TO
INSIST AT LEAST WE HAVE A CEASE-FIRE AND SAFE CORRIDOR SO
HUMANITARIAN ASSISTANCE AND MEDICINES AND FOOD CAN GET IN
THERE. WE HAVE TO JUST STOP AND PUT A
HALT TO THIS WAR MONGERING AND THIS MARCH TO WAR BECAUSE IT IS,
IN FACT, VERY DANGEROUS. IT IS, IN FACT, NOT GOING TO
KEEP OUR TROOPS AND OUR COUNTRY ANY SAFER.
THIS WAS AN ACT OF WAR, AND IT WAS ILLEGAL WHAT THE PRESIDENT
DID. >> CONGRESSMAN BARBARA LEE,
THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR YOUR TIME.
I REALLY APPRECIATE IT. >> THANK YOU.
>> THANK YOU. JOINING ME NOW, MALCOLM NANTZ,
AUTHOR OF "PLOT TO ATTACK AMERICA" AUTHOR OF "HOW TO CATCH
A RUSSIAN SPY" AND SPOKES PERSONS NARIYAH HACK.
A POINT MADE BY CONGRESSWOMAN LEE, WHAT WE DID, THIS STRIKE,
WAS AN ACT OF WAR AND ILLEGAL. FROM HAVING WORKED IN THE STATE
DEPARTMENT, WHAT IS YOUR ASSESSMENT OF THAT?
>> THAT'S THE ARGUMENT ABOUT 2013.
PRESIDENT OBAMA HAD ESSENTIALLY THE SAME PLAN READY AND SEVERAL
PLANS READY FROM THE MILITARY, BECAUSE THAT'S WHAT THE MILITARY
DOES, HAS OPTIONS AVAILABLE FOR COMMANDER IN CHIEF TO USE AND
DECISION MADE TO CONSULT CONGRESS.
CONGRESS AT THE TIME WAS NOT INTERESTED IN GETTING THE THE
UNITED STATES, NEITHER WAS THE PUBLIC INTERESTED IN GETTING
UNITED STATES EMBROILED IN YET ANOTHER WAR IN THE MIDDLE EAST.
WE DON'T HAVE A GOOD HISTORY THERE, PARTICULARLY AFTER WHAT
HAPPENED WITH THE MILITARY INTERVENTION IN IRAQ.
CONSULT WITH CONGRESS, MAKE A CASE TO THE AMERICAN PEOPLE
BEFORE A COMMANDER IN CHIEF SHOULD GO -- MAKE A MILITARY
STRIKE OR GO TO WAR. ON THE OTHER SIDE, YOU HAVE THE
ARGUMENT OF LOOKING DECISIVE. THAT'S CERTAINLY WHAT PEOPLE SAY
PRESIDENT TRUMP HAS DONE. HE HAS LOOKED DECISIVE.
HE HAS LOOKED DIFFERENT FROM OBAMA.
THERE IS A LOT OF ROOM BETWEEN DECISION AND DITHERING.
THAT'S A ROOM WE'RE TRYING TO FILL RIGHT NOW AND UNDERSTAND
WHAT IS ACTUALLY THE GOAL HERE. YES, HE LOOKS DIFFERENT THAN
OBAMA. NOBODY WOULD EVER CONFUSE
PRESIDENT TRUMP FOR PRESIDENT OBAMA.
YES, HE KNOCKED OFF SEVERAL THINGS FROM THE HEADLINES OF THE
FRONT PAGES THAT OTHERWISE WOULD HAVE BEEN NEWS STORIES ON THEIR
OWN. BUT THE QUESTION IS, IS THIS
ABOUT REMOVING ASSAD? IS THIS ABOUT HELPING THE SYRIAN
PEOPLE? THAT BEING THE CASE THERE,
SHOULD BE MORE MILITARY
INTERVENTION FOLLOWED BY PLANS TO DIPLOMACY AND PRESSURE BRING
TO BEAR TO MAKE ASSAD AND OTHER PEOPLE PAY ATTENTION.
>> I THINK THAT WAS THE POINT. WHAT WAS THE POINT HITTING AN
AIR BASE USED AGAIN THEREAFTER, NO EVIDENCE THEY DESTROYED ANY
AIRCRAFT OR DID ANYTHING OF THAT NATURE, DESTROYED CHEMICAL
WEAPONS CAPABILITY. FROM YOUR POINT OF VIEW
STRATEGICALLY, DID THIS HAVE ANY POINT?
>> WELL, IT HAD A POINT FOR DONALD TRUMP.
RIGHT OFF THE BAT THE DEFENSE DEPARTMENT RESPONDED TO HIS
REQUEST. THE QUESTION IS WHAT
PRECIPITATED THE UNITED STATES HAD TO ACT BECAUSE IT WAS A
DECISIVE DECISION OFF THE BAT. THE QUESTION IS, WAS IT A SHOOT
FROM THE HIP TYPE OF ACTION HE WANTED TO PROJECT?
WE PROJECTED A DEMONSTRATION OF AMERICAN FIREPOWER.
THAT'S WHAT WE PROJECTED. WE PUT OUT 59 CRUISE MISSILES
AND WE SHOWED TO EVERYONE IN THE REGION WE CAN ONCE AGAIN LAUNCH
CRUISE MISSILES. MILITARILY WE STRUCK THE TARGETS
WE AIMED AT. HOWEVER WE PUT IN SEVERAL
FACTORS WHICH DIDN'T ALLOW FOR ANY REAL ON THE GROUND TANGIBLE
CHANGE TO THE SITUATION. WE LITERALLY WARNED THE RUSSIANS
WE WERE GOING TO STRIKE THE BASE.
THE RUSSIANS WARNED THE SYRIANS. THEY LEFT THE BASE.
WE ONLY STRUCK, AS I UNDERSTAND, SIX TO 20 AIRCRAFT.
THOSE AN CHEBT AIRCRAFT, WHEN I WAS A YOUNG BABY, THOSE AIRCRAFT
WERE OLD. THEY WILL NOW BE PLACED WITH NEW
STATE-OF-THE-ART RUSSIAN AIRCRAFT WITH A MUCH BIGGER
CAPACITY. THE LAST THING THAT'S WORSE,
THAT INGHIMASI THIS MISSION FAILURE, WE DID NOT STRIKE THE
CHEMICAL WEAPONS. WE DIDN'T DESTROY THEM.
WE LEFT THEM INTACT. THIS WAS SUPPOSED TO ALLOW, I
GUESS, RUSSIA TO INFLUENCE THE SYRIANS, TO SET THEM ASIDE OR
PUT THEM ASIDE. I DON'T KNOW.
ALL I KNOW IS SYRIANS CAN NOW HIDE THOSE CHEMICAL WEAPONS AND
PREPARE FOR THEIR USE IN ADVANCE.
SO RIGHT THERE -- AS I SAID, A VISUAL EFFECT, A GIANT FIREWORKS
DISPLAY, A VERY PRECISE WEAPONS SYSTEMS BUT TOTAL MISSION
FAILURE BECAUSE ASSAD CAN NOW USE THOSE EXACT SAME CHEMICAL
WEAPONS. >> NAVEED, HANGING OVER ALL
THIS, "NEW YORK TIMES" INFORMATION CAME BACK WAY BACK
IN AUGUST CIA HAD POTENTIAL COORDINATION BETWEEN TRUMP
CAMPAIGN AND RUSSIANS. RUSSIANS GOT A HEADS UP.
THE STATE DEPARTMENT, BY THE WAY, DID NOT.
RUSSIANS STILL OPERATING AND STILL SUPPORTING ASSAD.
WHAT DO YOU THINK THIS SAYS ABOUT THE TRUMP-RUSSIA
CONNECTION AND TRUMP-RUSSIA RELATIONSHIP?
>> I'M NOT SURE IT SAYS MUCH ABOUT THE LARGER ISSUE OF THE
INVESTIGATION. WHAT I AM CONCERNED ABOUT, WHAT
WE'VE SEEN WITH RUSSIA, THEY ARE EXPERTS ABOUT MANIPULATING
INFORMATION AND PROPAGANDA. THERE IS SOMETHING TO THAT IN
REGARDS TO SYRIA. WE LOOK BACK AT '95 AND BOSNIA.
WE HAVE TO BE VERY CAREFUL WE HAVE THE INTERNATIONAL AUTHORITY
TO ACT. THERE'S THIS CONCEPT THAT WAS
THE PREAMBLE OF UNITED NATIONS CHARTER SECOND WORLD WAR,
CONCEPT OF CRIMES AGAINST
HUMANITY. I DON'T THINK ANYONE WOULD ARGUE
OUR MORAL COMPASS IS POINTING THE RIGHT WAY STRIKING ASSAD
AFTER THESE HORRENDOUS ATTACKS. THAT BEING SAID THERE NEEDS TO
BE INTERNATIONAL AUTHORITY THAT GIVES UNITED STATES THE RIGHT TO
ACT. THIS WAS A SOVEREIGN STATE.
IT WASN'T DIRECTLY IMPACTED BY INTERNATIONAL SECURITY.
RUSSIA WILL TAKE THAT AND USE IT IN THE INTERNATIONAL COURTS.
IT'S VERY IMPORTANT WE DO THAT. ALSO TO MALCOLM'S POINT, THE
IDEA WE STARTED TO MAYBE DO A SLIGHT DENT IN ASSAD'S
CAPABILITIES, THERE'S NO DOUBT SYRIANS WILL TURN TO RUSSIANS,
THEY SAID THEY WOULD STRENGTHEN AIR DEFENSE SYSTEM.
THAT INTERNATIONAL CONSORTIUM, SOMETHING POTENTIALLY AT THE
U.N. WOULD ALSO BLOCK SYRIA FROM BUILDING UP ITS ARM AGAIN.
THAT IS A HUGE PART. SO TRUMP STRATEGY MUST INCLUDE
SOME PART OF ACTUALLY USING THE INTERNATIONAL SYSTEM TO GO AFTER
ASSAD. TO NOT DO SO WOULD ACTUALLY
LEAVE RUSSIANS A HUGE OPPORTUNITY HERE TO USE THIS IN
A PROPAGANDA FASHION AGAINST US. >> HERE IS THE RANDOM PART,
CONSIDERING THAT I'M COMING FROM DIPLOMATIC SPACE, THE CHALLENGE
THAT WE HAVE WITH THE INTERNATIONAL ORDER RIGHT NOW IS
THAT IT HASN'T WORKED TO PREVENT ATROCITIES, KOSOVO, RWANDA, NOW
LOOKING AT SYRIA. THE UNITED STATES IS NOT THE
FORUM FOR STRONG MORAL LEADERSHIP.
>> AND THE STATE DEPARTMENT'S BUDGET IS BEING CUT AND
UNDERMINED BY THIS ADMINISTRATION.
VERY INTERESTING. I GUESS WE'LL ALL BE BACK.
FOR MORE ON THE STORY CHECK OUT MY COMMENT IN
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