>>> WELCOME BACK TO "HARDBALL." TODAY THE UNITED STATES STRUCK
AN ISIS TARGET IN AFGHANISTAN WITH THE LARGEST NON-NUCLEAR
BOMB THAT THE MILITARY HAS EVER USED ON THE BATTLEFIELD.
THE GBU 43 WHICH IS NICKNAMED THE MOTHER OF ALL BOMBS WAS
DROPPED TO DESTROY AN ISIS TUNNEL SYSTEM IN A SPARSELY
POPULATED AREA NEAR THE AFGHAN BORDER WITH PAKIPAKISTAN.
LOOK AT IT GO THERE. ACCORDING TO NBC, THE STRIKE WAS
A BATTLEFIELD CALL MADE UNDER THE AUTHORITY OF THE COMMANDER
OF U.S. FORCES IN AFGHANISTAN. WHEN PRESIDENT TRUMP WAS ASKED
TODAY IF HE AUTHORIZED THIS STRIKE, HE REFERRED TO THE U.S.
MILITARY AT ONE POINT AS BEING "MY MILITARY."
>> DID YOU AUTHORIZE IT, SIR? >> EVERYBODY KNOWS EXACTLY WHAT
HAPPENED SO -- AND WHAT I DO IS I AUTHORIZE MY MILITARY.
>> HE ALSO HAD THIS TO SAY WITH THE FIGHT AGAINST ISIS UNDER HIS
ADMINISTRATION. >> WE HAVE GIVEN THEM TOTAL
AUTHORIZATION, AND THAT'S WHAT THEY'RE DOING.
AND FRANKLY THAT'S WHY THEY'VE BEEN SO SUCCESSFUL LATELY.
IF YOU LOOK AT WHAT'S HAPPENED OVER THE LAST EIGHT WEEKS AND
COMPARE THAT REALLY TO WHAT'S HAPPENED OVER THE LAST EIGHT
YEARS, YOU'LL SEE THERE'S A TREMENDOUS DIFFERENCE.
>> WELL, THE BOMBING WAS NOT SPECIFICALLY ORDERED BY THE
PRESIDENT, HE DID MAKE THIS PROMISE ON THE CAMPAIGN TRIAL.
>> I'M GOING TO BOMB THE [ BLEEP ] OUT OF THEM.
IT'S TRUE. [ CHEERS AND APPLAUSE ]
I DON'T CARE. I DON'T CARE.
THEY'VE GOT TO BE STOPPED. >> I DON'T CARE.
GREAT LINE. I'M JOINED BY LEON PANETTA,
FORMER SECRETARY OF DEFENSE UNDER PRESIDENT OBAMA.
MR. SECRETARY, THANK YOU FOR JOINING US TONIGHT.
IT COULDN'T BE MORE TIMELY. DO YOU BELIEVE A BATTLEFIELD
COMMANDER WOULD HAVE MADE A DECISION TO DROP THE BIGGEST
ORDNANCE WE HAVE WITHOUT CHECKING WITH PRESIDENT OBAMA.
WOULD THEY HAVE DONE THAT UNDER YOUR LEADERSHIP?
>> I -- I DON'T THINK THAT A MILITARY COMMANDER WHO IS GOING
TO USE THIS KIND OF WEAPON FOR THE FIRST TIME -- HE MAY HAVE
HAD THE AUTHORIZATION TO MAKE THE DECISION TO USE THAT KIND OF
WEAPON, BUT I CLEARLY THINK THEY WOULD HAVE INFORMED THE
PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES TO MAKE SURE THAT HE WAS AWARE
OF IT. >> AHEAD OF TIME?
>> EXACTLY. >> WHAT ABOUT THE PRESIDENT'S
TERM "MY MILITARY"? HE SAID THAT TODAY.
HE SAID "OUR MILITARY," AND THEN HE GOT AROUND TO IN A KIND OF
WAY YOU CAN IMAGINE HIM SAYING IT, WITH A BIT OF A SWAG, "MY
MILITARY." DOES THAT CONCERN YOU?
>> WELL, YOU KNOW, I THINK THIS PRESIDENT OBVIOUSLY SOMETIMES
VIEWS THESE THINGS A LOT DIFFERENTLY ININ TERMS OF THE RE
OF A PRESIDENT. BUT WHEN IT COMES TO THE
MILITARY, THE MILITARY BELONGS TO THE COUNTRY.
OUR DEFENSE SYSTEM BELONGS TO THE COUNTRY, AND IT'S NOT THE
PRESIDENT'S MILITARY. IT'S THE MILITARY OF THE UNITED
STATES OF AMERICA, AND HE HAS RESPONSIBILITY OBVIOUSLY, AS
COMMANDER IN CHIEF, TO BE ABLE TO MAKE DECISIONS WITH REGARDS
TO OUR MILITARY. BUT I THINK IF YOU ASK THE MEN
AND WOMEN IN UNIFORM WHO THEY ARE RESPONSIBLE TO, I THINK
THEIR ANSWER WOULD BE, WE'RE RESPONSIBLE TO THE UNITED STATES
OF AMERICA. >> WELL, THERE ARE ALSO SOME NEW
DEVELOPMENTS, MR. SECRETARY, TODAY ABOUT THE POTENTIAL
COLLUSION BETWEEN THE TRUMP CAMPAIGN AND THE KREMLIN.
TODAY THE GUARDIAN NEWSPAPER REPORTED THE BRITISH
INTELLIGENCE ORGANIZATION GCHQ, QUOTE, FIRST BECAME AWARE IN
LATE 2015 OF SUSPICIOUS INTERACTIONS BETWEEN FIGURES
CONNECTED TO TRUMP AND KNOWN OR SUSPECTED RUSSIAN AGENTS.
THIS INTELLIGENCE WAS PASSED TO THE U.S. AS PART OF A ROUTINE
EXCHANGE OF INFORMATION. WELL, SOURCES ALSO TOLD THE
GUARDIAN THAT, QUOTE, THE FBI AND THE CIA WERE SLOW TO
APPRECIATE THE EXTENSIVE NATURE OF CONTACTS BETWEEN TRUMP'S TEAM
AND MOSCOW. WHAT DO YOU MAKE OF -- YOU WERE
HEAD OF CIA, DIRECTOR OF CIA. WHAT DO YOU THINK OF WHAT WE
KNOW? CAN YOU HAVE A CONVERSATION IF
YOU'RE A CARTER PAGE OR YOU'RE A MANAFORT, A PAUL MANAFORT,
SOMEONE CONNECTED TO AN AMERICAN PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE?
CAN YOU HAVE A CONVERSATION ON THE PHONE OR IN PERSON WITH A
RUSSIAN INTEL PERSON WITHOUT OUR INTEL PEOPLE KNOWING ABOUT IT?
>> WELL, YOU KNOW, I CAN ONLY TELL YOU FROM MY OWN EXPERIENCE
AS DIRECTOR OF THE CIA THAT CLEARLY OUR INTELLIGENCE WAS
FOCUSED PRIMARILY ON OUR ADVERSARIES, WHETHER IT'S
RUSSIA, WHETHER IT WAS IRAN, WHETHER IT'S CHINA, WHETHER IT'S
ISIS, WHETHER IT'S NORTH KOREA. THOSE WERE THE PRIMARY TARGETS
IN TERMS OF OUR SURVEILLANCE, AND I WILL TELL YOU THAT OUR
ALLIES, OTHER INTELLIGENCE ALLIES, WERE FOCUSED ON THOSE
SAME TARGETS. SO I'M NOT SURPRISED THAT THEY
WOULD PICK UP THAT KIND OF -- THROUGH SURVEILLANCE, WOULD PICK
UP THOSE KINDS OF CONVERSATIONS, PARTICULARLY IF THEY'RE FOCUSED
ON THE RUSSIANS AND THEN OBVIOUSLY FIND OUT WHO THOSE
RUSSIANS ARE TALKING TO. SO CLEARLY IT DOESN'T SURPRISE
ME THAT THEY WOULD FIND THAT SAME INFORMATION.
I THINK THE QUESTION OF HOW WE REACTED TO THAT IS ONE THAT
ULTIMATELY I BELIEVE THE FBI WILL HAVE TO FIND OUT.
>> DOES IT SURPRISE YOU THAT THERE'S SO MUCH TRAFFIC THAT
WE'RE PICKING UP BETWEEN THE TRUMP PEOPLE, WHETHER IT'S
CARTER PAGE,, MANAFORT, ALL THOE PEOPLE THAT KEEP GOING BACK AND
FORTH TO RUSSIA? IS THAT BECAUSE RUSSIA HAS A LOT
OF MONEY AND CAN HIRE U.S. POLITICAL CONSULTANTS SO FREELY?
IT JUST AMAZED ME, SO MUCH ACTIVITY BETWEEN THE SMALL GROUP
OF PEOPLE AROUND TRUMP AND THE LEADERSHIP OF THE RUSSIAN INTEL
OPERATION. HOW DOES IT STRIKE YOU JUST IN
GENERAL LOOKING AT IT? >> THERE'S -- THERE'S A LOT
GOING ON HERE IN TERMS OF WHAT RUSSIA WAS DOING DURING THAT
PERIOD OF TIME, AND WHETHER THESE INDIVIDUALS WERE OPERATING
ON THEIR OWN OR WHETHER THEY WERE OPERATING UNDER THE
DIRECTION OF THE TRUMP CAMPAIGN IS SOMETHING THAT I THINK
OBVIOUSLY THE FBI IS INVESTIGATING AS WELL AS THE
COMMITTEES ON THE HILL. BUT THE REALITY IS THAT WE HAVE
SEVERAL INDIVIDUALS HERE WHO WERE RECEIVING MONEY FROM THE
RUSSIANS OR THOSE CONNECTED TO THE RUSSIANS, DID NOT DECLARE
THEIR ROLE AND THE FACT THAT THEY RECEIVED THAT MONEY, ARE
NOW TALKING ABOUT DECLARING THEMSELVES AS FOREIGN AGENTS.
SO IT RAISES A LOT OF QUESTIONS ABOUT JUST EXACTLY WHAT THE HELL
WAS GOING ON HERE. >> AND WHAT GOOD DOES IT DO TO
DECLARE YOUR ROLE WITH REGARD TO A FOREIGN POWER WAY AFTER THE
FACT? I GUESS THAT'S WHAT YOU'RE
SAYING. THE COW'S OUT OF THE BARN.
>> I THINK THEIR LAWYERS RECOMMENDED THAT THEY FILE AS
FOREIGN AGENTS. >> I SEE.
>> I DO THINK THE ONE THING THAT'S INTERESTING IS THAT ALL
OF THIS GIVES THE FBI THE OPPORTUNITY, BY VIRTUE OF, I
THINK, VIOLATIONS OF THE LAW THAT HAVE TAKEN PLA PLACE HERE,T
THEY WILL HAVE LEVERAGE TO TRY TO GET FURTHER TESTIMONY FROM
INDIVIDUALS LIKE MANAFORT AND FLYNN AND PAGE AND OTHERS
BECAUSE THEY WILL HAVE THE LEVERAGE OF POTENTIAL LEGAL
VIOLATIONS TO USE AGAINST THEM. >> HERE'S SOMETHING I KNOW
YOU'VE BEEN THINKING ABOUT EVEN AS A PROFESSOR AND PRIVATE
CITIZEN, THIS NORTH KOREAN THING.
THAT COUNTRY, PYONGYANG APPEARS READY TO TEST ITS SIXTH NUCLEAR
WEAPON, WHICH COULD COME AS EARLY AS TOMORROW NIGHT AT THIS
TIME APPARENTLY. PRESIDENT TRUMP TWEETED THIS
MORNING THAT, I HAVE GREAT CONFIDENCE THAT CHINA WILL
PROPERLY DEAL WITH NORTH KOREA IF THEY ARE UNABLE TO DO SO, THE
UNITED STATES, WITH ITS ALLIES, WILL.
THE PRESIDENT WAS ASKED LATER TODAY WHETHER THE USE OF A LARGE
BOMB IN AFGHANISTAN TODAY SENT ANY MESSAGE TO NORTH KOREA.
HERE'S WHAT THE PRESIDENT SAID. >> THANK YOU VERY MUCH.
>> MR. MENT, DOES THIS SEND A MESSAGE TO NORTH KOREA?
DOES IT SEND A MESSAGE TO NORTH KOREA?
>> I DON'T KNOW IF THIS SENDS A MESSAGE.
IT DOESN'T MAKE ANY DIFFERENCE IF IT DOES OR NOT.
NORTH KOREA IS A PROBLEM. THE PROBLEM WILL BE TAKEN CARE
OF. I WILL SAY THIS.
I THINK CHINA HAS REALLY BEEN WORKING VERY HARD.
I HAVE REALLY GOTTEN TO LIKE AND RESPECT, AS YOU KNOW, PRESIDENT
XI. HE'S A VERY SPECIAL MAN.
SO WE'LL SEE HOW IT GOES. I THINK HE'S GOING TO TRY VERY
HARD. >> MR. SECRETARY, THIS IS THE
MOST CONFOUNDING THING ON OUR HORIZON.
HOW DO YOU STOP WHAT SEEMS TO BE A YOUNG, MURDEROUS, WELL, IDIOT
MAYBE FROM USING A NUCLEAR WEAPON IN OUR LIFETIME?
>> WELL, I THINK THE PRESIDENT, TO HIS CREDIT, IS DOING THE
RIGHT THING IN TRYING TO PUT PRESSURE ON PRESIDENT XI TO PUT
PRESSURE ON NORTH KOREA. LOOK, CHRIS, THERE ARE NO GOOD
OPTIONS HERE. YOU KNOW, PRESIDENTS IN THE PAST
WOULD HAVE PULLED THE TRIGGER A LONG TIME AGO IF THERE WERE EASY
OPTIONS. THE FACT IS WE'RE DEALING WITH A
NUCLEAR-POWERED NATION. IF WE WERE TO TRY TO ATTACK
THEM, THEY WOULD VIRTUALLY WIPE OUT SEOUL AND 20 MILLION PEOPLE
WHO LIVE IN SEOUL. AND IF IT BECAME A NUCLEAR WAR,
WHICH IS LIKELY, MILLIONS OF LIVES WOULD BE LOST, AND THAT'S
THE REASON WE HAVEN'T PULLED THE TRIGGER.
THE FACT IS WE'VE USED BOTH CONTAINMENT AND DETERRENCE AS A
PRINCIPAL POLICY HERE. I THINK FRANKLY IN THE END
THAT'S WHAT WE'RE LEFT WITH WHETHER WE LIKE IT OR NOT.
AND FRANKLY IT WAS CONTAINMENT AND DETERRENCE THAT ULTIMATELY
RESULTED IN THE SOVIET UNION
SELF-DESTRUCTING. I HOPE THAT WILL HAPPEN HERE.
>> WE HAD A RATIONAL SET OF LEADERS, RUSSIAN LEADERSHIP IN
THE SOVIET ERA. WE HAD PEOPLE LIKE KHRUSHCHEV
WHO ACTUALLY HADCONSCIENCES.
HOW DO WE DEAL WITH SOMEBODY WHO DOESN'T HAVE ONE?
>> HE COMES FROM A LONG LINE OF VERY UNPREDICTABLE AND UNSTABLE
LEADERS. BUT HIS FATHER AND HIS
GRANDFATHER, JUST AS I ASSUME
THIS LEADER UNDERSTANDS, THAT IF THEY ENGAGE IN ANY KIND OF
PEREMPTORY ATTACK HERE IN THAT REGION, THAT IS COMMITTING
SUICIDE FOR THEIR REGIME. I THINK THEY UNDERSTAND THAT,
AND IT'S FOR THAT REASON THAT WE'RE ENGAGED IN THIS PERIOD OF
PROVOCATION. I THINK THE BIGGEST CONCERN I
HAVE IS THAT IN ENGAGING IN THESE PROVOCATIONS, THAT
SOMEBODY MAY MISCALCULATE, WHETHER IT'S SOUTH KOREA,
WHETHER IT'S SOMEBODY ELSE, WHETHER IT'S US, SOMEBODY MAY
MISCALCULATE, AND WE COULD BE IN A WAR.
THAT'S PROBABLY THE GREATEST DANGER WE FACE RIGHT NOW.
>> ONE LAST ONE, MR. SECRETARY. PRESIDENT TRUMP'S DIRECTOR OF
THE CIA, MIKE POMPEO TODAY CALLED OUT WIKILEAKS, AN
ORGANIZATION THAT TRUMP FREQUENTLY PRAISED ON THE
CAMPAIGN TRAIL, FOR HELPING HIM IN THE ELECTION.
LET'S WATCH THIS BIZARRE STATEMENT.
>> IT'S TIME TO CALL OUT WIKILEAKS FOR WHAT IT REALLY IS,
A NON-STATE HOSTILE INTELLIGENCE SERVICE OFTEN ABETTED BY STATE
ACTORS LIKE RUSSIA. >> WELL, THERE HE HAS AN
ACKNOWLEDGEMENT, A PRETTY DIRECT ONE, THAT RUSSIA AND WIKILEAKS
WERE WORKING TOGETHER TO HELP TRUMP WIN.
WHAT DO YOU MAKE OF THAT? >> WELL, FRANKLY, IT DOESN'T
SURPRISE ME. YOU KNOW, I'M GLAD THE DIRECTOR
OF THE CIA MADE THE POINT. THE FACT IS THAT RUSSIA, I'M
SURE WITHOUT QUESTION, WAS INVOLVED WITH ASSANGE AND
WIKILEAKS BECAUSE WIKILEAKS HAD A TON OF CLASSIFIED INFORMATION
FROM THE UNITED STATES. AND IT'S FOR THAT REASON THAT
THEY WERE, I'M SURE, COLLABORATING WITH HIM IN THE
EFFORT THAT WENT ON IN TERMS OF THE HACKING THAT WENT ON DURING
THE LAST ELECTION. SO THERE'S NO QUESTION THAT
THERE'S A LOT OF COLLUSION HERE BETWEEN THE RUSSIANS AND BETWEEN
WIKILEAKS. >> DO YOU THINK THEY HAD HIM
TRAPPED WITH THE INFORMATION THEY HAD?
>> I THINK THAT WIKILEAKS, BY VIRTUE OF THE CLASSIFIED
INFORMATION THEY HAD AND THE FACT THAT THE RUSSIANS KNEW WHAT
KIND OF CLASSIFIED INFORMATION WAS THERE, THAT RUSSIA USED THAT
INFORMATION AS PART OF THE HACKING ATTACK ON THE UNITED
STATES TO INFLUENCE OUR ELECTION.
I WOULD NOT BE SURPRISED IF THE FBI AND THE INVESTIGATIONS THAT
ARE GOING ON CONFIRMED THAT KIND OF COLLUSION.
>> THANK YOU SO MUCH, FORMER SECRETARY OF DEFENSE AND FORMER
CIA DIRECTOR AND
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