Hello. My name is Soojung Lee and I am a professor at Kyonggi University
Google is pretty much a dream company for the young generations
I wished to have a chance to talk to younger generations, especially those working at high-tech or internet-based companies2
That is why I decided to join you today
I would like to begin by asking about criminal psychology and yourself to help our understanding during the session
I believe you have been an advisor for <The True Thing That We Wanna Know> for a long time
How did you end up putting your feet on criminal psychology?
Well..I work at Kyonggi University
Twenty years ago before I joined Kyonggi University, I never expected that I would be talking about criminal psychology to the audience
I was just a hard-working student and have PhD degree on psychology, in particular measurement and evaluation
Psychology deals with something invisible and my area of study was to research and develop mechanism to make invisible things visible. I guess that is a good summary of my job
I did research with schizophrenics for a while before I joined Kyonggi University
I used the computer to find out how their reactions differ during cognitive test as an attempt to realize personal gaps in more measurable ways
When I did research on that topic, I thought it would not contribute that much because there is not much you can get by doing research with schizophrenics as they do not function as well as normal people do
Their personal characteristics outweighs the characteristic of different tasks
As a matter of fact, there were already big outcomes from great researches and I thought my research would not deviate much from them
On top of that, Kyonggi University did not have psychology major
I was hired as a psychology professor under the school of liberal arts
It was late 90s and being a female professor was not an easy process due to gender inequality etc
But there were only handful of female professors teaching psychology and I did not care which department would offer me a job because I was going to teach psychology anyway
So I applied and surprisingly I received an easy offer. It turned out that Kyonggi University was the only school that had penology major
Penologists sort out criminals or inmates in prison based on their psychological characteristics
This sort out procedure is performed in compliance of Criminal Administration Act in order to incarcerate the criminals at different cell or prison based on their risk level
For example, those with higher risk will be monitored under high security while those with lower risk might let go outside to do labors or even put into what is called open prison
Then the Ministry of Justice is concerned with the methodologies that monitor prisoners and they requested us to do the project
But there was no one doing measurement statistics so I did that job for like 2-3 years
That is how I first stepped in studying criminals
Even back in early 2000s, interviewing actual criminals in person was not easy opportunities as it is today
I typically received data files only and worked on categorization
In 2002, I was sent abroad for research
Basically, every psychologist would agree that meeting people is the primary job to do
They meet, interview and run some psychological tests to see whether they are normal, suffer any psychological diseases or possess any special cognitive characteristics
I encountered the criminal only in a form of data file for about two and half years
I was convinced that I will not be able to make any contribution to both my field and school without meeting criminals in person
Kyonggi University only offered specialized concentrations such as penology and police administration at that time and the school wanted to initiate another one
The school wants to create criminal psychology concentration at the graduate school and they wanted me to be in charge of it
Yet, I have never met any criminal. I have never committed or being committed a crime
I was like I do not know what criminal psychology actually is. Then I requested the school to send me overseas for research and ended up spending my entire time at somewhere basically out of nowhere in Texas where prisons are clustered
The nearest mid/big size city from where I researched was around 4-5 hours away
Texas imposes the strictest criminal policy in US and the state still execute death penalties several times every month
With harsh criminal penalties, prisons are concentrated at out of nowhere in Texas
There is one UT campus that is well known for its criminal justice program
I was sent to that campus to complete PhD degree of forensic psychology and that is how basically how my career began as a criminal psychologist
I feel as if I am watching TV right now as I speak
Most of us have already seen you in TV
You are known as the first profiler in Korea or criminal psychologist. Could you please explain how they are different from one another?
The term profiling is not applied to only criminals
You can use the same methodology on mentally disordered people as well
Profiler as an official job is only available at the police. Profilers are specifically recruited by the police
There are several other Korean researchers in my field
They all used to talk about why it is necessary to train advisers who can assist crime investigations from the beginning stage in addition to investigators
Yoo Young-chul (a Korean serial killer) case was when profiling was introduced for the first time
In that case, his personal specificity out-powered any potential cause of crimes
For example, Koreans used to say crimes are caused by the poverty
Even the government cannot help with that. They believed that anyone would attempt to commit a robbery if they starve for three days
Based on this logic, there were times when the government more invested in public welfare, hoping that it would lower the crime rate
Korea is definitely richer now and on its way to a welfare country
People no longer commit murders because they starve. Rather, Korea started to witness crimes where murder served the end, not a mean
These unique group of people cannot be stopped regardless of government policies
Experts who can track special crime cases since the beginning are now on demand and profilers started to be recruited after Yoo Young-Chul case
As you mentioned, the nature of crimes is getting horrific and brutal
You offer advises to a number of cases other than TV show The True Thing That We Wanna Know
Is there any shocking or complicated case even from the point of psychologists view that you can share with us
The first criminal that I met killed her husband. She was abused and beaten by her husband for decades
Her daughter grew up and became a nurse. She grew up seeing her mom getting abused and colluded with her to kill her father
They cut the corpse into pieces just like Yoo Young Chul case and buried them. The police brought me to the crime scene
The police would not have brought me there if I were a man. But in this case, they had to female suspects and needed someone to interview them
There were no female profiler at that time. So I followed the police and saw the crime scene and that was the first criminal I encountered
I probably felt sympathized because I also married and have children at the time I met her
The police investigated the crime suspects and was about to send them
The police showed me the document that described the crime motif and it said The wife killed her husband with hatred after disagreement
I agree that crime motif should be simply stated. But in this case, the mom had been abused throughout the entire marriage and he daughter could not let that happen anymore and killed him
They did not know what to do with the corpse so cut it into pieces as they saw in TV and buried them
What they did to the dead body should be blamed, but I personally sympathized with the mom when she probably made the final resistance against her husbands violence
The word hatred in the crime motif did not seem relating to me. Maybe no one would question that other than psychologists
People with hatred commit murder with intent. Her murder was not to kill the husband but for her survival
In foreign countries, battered woman syndrome would have been suitable for this case, but it was not reflected at all in the crime investigation
That is when I first realized that there might be ways I can contribute as a psychologist
That was before I went to US
I studied crime psychology, have PhD degree in psychology and have a job so that I wished to do something that can help others
Then I remembered the first criminal I met and thought that there is something I can offer as a specialist
For that case though, I could not be involved due to the law system at that time
In 2008, the criminal law was revised. Specialists are involved with civil lawsuits and they measure the damages..this is something that a judge cannot do
For example, judges cannot estimate damages when a bridge collapse
Civil engineers need to get involved and the Civil Procedure Code was revised to allow participation of civil specialists
Since 2008, courts have started to operate commission of enquiry after revision of the criminal law
Since then, I have been involved with spouse murder cases almost once in two years as a special advisor
Spouse murders are rare cases..it probably occurs once a year, yet still ongoing
Korea is now economically developed and OECD member, yet our perception and prejudice on women has not changed over 30-40 years
Korea is still a patriarchal society and housewives are required to be subordinate for harmony
As an extension of the patriarchy, self-defence is not justified for women regardless of their circumstances
I have not yet seen any case where self-defence was justified for spouse murder case
Perhaps that is one reason that I have been persistent with these cases
I hear similar cases on the media where victims are consequently treated like offenders
Is that only because they are females? In many cases, murders are victims until they committed murder whether it is spontaneous or planned. It looks unfair to me that they have to suffer heavy sentence when they are the one victimized for most of the time
There are still lacking understandings on victims
Therefore, contingent act of offence for self-defence is not accepted
Men oriented thoughts are still prevalent in our society whether you acknowledge or not
Whether you are male or female, you have unconsciously studied these stereotypes and prejudice over long time
Female judges or juries are no difference either
This is not just a matter of gender. Gender inequality has long been passed down as a part of Confucianism and people still share that thinking process
I am not generalizing this gender issue towards the whole society
I try to convince that defendants are prone to make inevitable choices due to their state of mind
I have completely failed so far. There has not been a single case where self-defence was justified during the past decade
Nonetheless, I know what I need to do going forward
It makes a big difference doing something knowing why and how
When I first started doing my field works for criminal psychology, I had spent a lot of time at jail because that is where I find my subjects Many people showed concerns
They were worried that criminals might take revenge on me. Even my mom told me to stop
My mom wanted me to stay in a quiet laboratory doing elegant research
I faced the moment where I had to make a decision. I choose doing something that I wanted to pursue and I am glad I made that decision
Of course, making that decision was a big struggle
I had young kids. If they grew up, I could have made easier decision because once I get exposed to risks, my kids get exposure as well
I was not sure if it was a right thing to do
My mom used to worry much. Now, she has Alzheimer disease and cannot tell differences between rights and wrongs
My kids grew up enough to protect themselves now. I am also no longer the same person that I used to be
I have achieved psychological stability. This is something I automatically achieved as I aged. In conclusion, I made the right choice
Let us move on to the particular field that you achieved success, psychopath
In these days, I feel like every murder or crime is committed by either psychopath or sociopath. How are they different from one another?
Do they have something in common that lead them to commit crimes? Is there any trigger?
Sociopath is not an academic term. This term is not found in academic research papers
You will only find psychopath, not sociopath
which is why differentiating them might not be necessary. Sociopath is a term used in the past
Western countries also experienced criminals who chronically committed crimes in 40-50s
So they needed a term to call those people. Their behaviors were anti-social so people started to call them sociopath
In psychiatry, we use the term anti-social personality disorder. Sociopath is an old terminology used in the past
Anti-social personality disorder is found from 4 people out of 100
At prisons with heavy security where they built extremely high fences to prevent escape, 70-80% of them have anti-social personality disorder
In other countries, the most dangerous group of people are incarcerated at prisons with heavy security
Even if the rate is 70-80%, there is no first-time criminal. Most of them habitually commit murder or rape and are put behind the bar
They are sociopath because they habitually commit something illegal or anti-social
Rich prisoners with power would not stay there long. They hire their lawyer to find the way out
Ultimately, only powerless people are left there. This term is consequential
Psychologists argue that there are even more unique group of people among them
We call them psychopath. Psychopath is about 25% of them
What is unique about this 25% is that they do not feel in the same way normal people would. They have psychological uniqueness
They are irresponsible and delinquent and do not feel guilty and etc
From the psychologists point of view, one of their uniqueness is that they do not sympathize
Numerous psychology tests have been conducted. Typically, people with sympathy easily catch emotional cues from others
For example, your coworker does not look good, start to sob or you hear scream in the middle of night
There should be sympathetic reactions that are naturally brought out to unpleasant rescue signals
Human being cannot act like a human without sympathy
If your brain does not recognize that signal, there is no input and your brain is not activated
Let us say that someone is asking for a help, and your brain has to recognize the act as a signal of asking for help. Then your brain will be activated to move on to the next step
For example, you hear a woman screaming for 5 minutes
Normal people unpleasantly react to it because that screaming can be a personal threat
But psychopath does not go through this emotional process. People around them drop tears and psychopaths cannot recognize it as a signal of sorrow
The reason why most of the serial killers are psychopath is that they do not perceive victims scream as pain nor do they recognize their begging as a sign of asking for help
Because their brain is not activated for this. This is their most distinguishable uniqueness
They call this hypo-activation in neurology. Anxiety is hyper activation
Even if they watch a horror movie, they can still pay attention because their brain does not go through activation
With this unique trait, they cannot help but commit brutal actions because they do not perceive it correct, which is why this type of people is the meanest
In general, people with troubles are thought to lack sympathy. Do sociopath or hypo-activated have to become criminals?
Not necessarily. Criminal will commit crimes whether in Korea or other countries
The problem is that they will be released if it is not demonstrated during the criminal lawsuit or other proceedings
You become a criminal once you commit a crime, which is demonstrated, given the guilty verdict and to the extent where you serve prison times
There are certainly psychopaths among those released. White collar psychopath is another subject popular on research
They are under protection of social boundaries, but their behaviors are no different from those imprisoned 10 times
They both raped, but white-collar psychopath finds the getaway while others are punished. There are researches on tracking these people, although it is very difficult
Hitler is a great example of psychopath
He massacred millions of Jewish, yet did not sympathize their pains. There are people possessing this uniqueness, but still successful in social boundaries
I want to ask a casual question this time. We normally see crime-related contents through medias
Is there any crime themed TV show, movie or documentary you enjoy watching for entertainment?
There is a new TV show called ÒmovieroomÓ It is a movie-themed TV talk show
The producing team asked me to watch two crime movies and join the show
One of them was The Chaser and the other was Memories of Murder, based on the real series of murders in Hwasung
I do not like crime movies first of all and hate when they try to recreate the real crime cases
The Chaser got its motif from Yoo Young Chul case
Seo Young-hee is an actress in that movie. In the movie, she could have fled away from the killer, but eventually re-captured and is murdered
That is one reason I try not to meet the victims. The more I meet them and understand their pains, the more uncomfortable I become in studying the criminals
I never felt that I wanted to kill the criminals when I met them in the prison. As a researcher, they are important research assets to me
Meeting criminals in person is a rare opportunity and when I finally grab that rare chance, I start to forget horrible and immoral things that committed, thus, did not get much resentful because I was so immersed into that opportunity
In The Chaser, Seo Young-hee acted extremely well and I got immersed into the movie. That is when I first felt that I want to kill this criminal
I investigated Kang Ho-sun (a serial killer in Korea) until before the verdict and I did not have that feeling. Once I first sympathize with the victim, that feeling started to occur in me
I thought that I should not watch crime movies as far as I work in this field
While watching the movies, were you able to guess who the killer is from the beginning?
How am I supposed to?
I think I am good at guessing so I always try to guess the real killer while watching the movie. I think you are good at it
I do not know
Is that because of fictional components in the movie?
Yes. Only a psychic would know. But we do have a field that projects repeated crimes
The criminal policy should prevent any potential risk. It should be managed within the system
There are around 30,000 sexual assault every year and we lock electronic anklet to the most dangerous ones
The risk does not mitigate after their release and we sort out those that should be locked with electronic anklets during trials
It has been 10 years since electronic anklet is systemized. It started back in 2008
If they planned to lock the anklet to 30,000 sexual offenders every year, it could have been 300,000 in 10 years
It is impossible to track all the electronic signals. There are people roam around elementary school, go back home late or drinking etc
They will get way too much signals from prohibited areas. That is why we need sort out the most dangerous groups
I came up with the guideline to sort out dangerous group and provided it to the Ministry of Justice
We referred to numerous research data to build our projection model. Actually it is a very common system in Western countries
The crime we project in future are not targeted to the entire population
Criminals with 10 previous records, sexual offenders with 7-8 histories, murders killed people more than twice are all in the record book
A person? future lies in the past. This group of people cannot live alone after six months of release
They cannot control themselves. They have preys everywhere
Elementary school students are always there nearby school, girls are left defenceless by carrying their groceries during the night, people walk with their earbuds on
If I were the predator, preys are left everywhere so the next step is to find potential predators
We evaluate their history and life conditions. It is not too difficult job to do
They lock the anklet around 300 every year. 300 out of 30,000 is exceptional. They are not normal people at all
The number started to accumulate and is not reached at 3,000 in total
They have the highest chance of committing repeated crimes. It was debatable in the beginning after we suggested the guideline
They asked how we could prove the likelihood of repeated crimes. But we do not get that question from the courts anymore
Why? Some cut the locked anklet to run away and recommit sexual assault with their anklets on, which substantiate our hypothesis. It is a relief for researchers
Sexual assaults, in particular, seem to be repeatedly committed by those with history
There is a really high sub-population now, but it is not always the case
For example, some are sentenced to 100 years, especially for child sexual assaults
This is practically a life sentence. Do you not think that the sentence in Korea is too light?
It is light. Another thing is that the victim is not at the center of our criminal law system. It is the offender
Based on presumption of innocence, the accused gets second chances to defend themselves, but this practice is done beyond reasonable level in Korea
Sexual assault is the most difficult crime type to substantiate due to lack of physical evidences
There is no weapon and DNA are hard to obtain
Even just a while ago, I watched TV debate where a fifteen-year old girl was raped, became a pregnant, and eventually they lived together
After she gave the birth, she later confessed that what happened at the age of 15 was a sexual assault
Because the man was 42 years old and he visited the hospital to see his sick son
Then he saw this fifteen-year-old girl and told her that he will make her an entertainer, then raped her
But the problem was verdict
He was sentenced to several decades with strict electronic anklet at the first trial, which was reduced to 9 years at the appeal, and eventually he was ruled not guilty by the supreme court
Would this be possible in US?
This was debatable. In conclusion, statutory rape only applies to those below 13 years old
She was fifteen at the time of rape, thus, was not under the law protection
Then what is next? The accused argue that it was an act of love
They are either deny it or insist that it was out of love. They are really persistent in their assertion
I do not understand how he could possible felt loving feeling from a girl who is about his son¡¯s age
Anyway, he kept saying that it was out of love and the girl overturned her statement after she gave the birth
Her belly started to swell and she could not go back her home. She had to stay with him, but he got locked at detention center for doing something bad
She stayed at his house with his son. His wife already fled a while ago
Eventually, the girl visited him everyday and he told her to write him love letter at every visit. I love you. I miss you. I felt in love with you at my first sight¡¦and so on
Her belly kept ballooning and she had nowhere else to go other than his house
Later he was released for non-restraint and the girl gave the birth and finally reported that he raped her
This whole story was submitted as evidence to the court
On evidence, the girl wrote a love letter everyday and argued that he raped her all of sudden. That is why he was ruled not guilty at the supreme court
These are on-going cases in Korea
Things like this can also happen in US, but children under 16 years old are protected under the statutory rape. They are around 8th or 9th grade
One thing interesting in US law is that it strictly protects children. If a case like this happen and the offender is like an adult who is 5+ years older than the victim, he must have been sentenced to long years
In the ruling by the supreme court, the reason he pled not guilty was that the sexual intercourse was not against her will because they lived together and she wrote love letters to him
So it was controversial for a while but the issue wasÉ What was I supposed to talk about?
About sentences
Statutory rape was not the case here. The point of ruling was that he should not pled guilty due to lack of sufficient evidence to prove the rape
And the only thing left for sexual assault is the victimÕs statement
The man was consistent with his assertion while the girl changed her stances
The court deemed it unreliable and ruled that they could not find evidence to prove his guilt
The age group under the protection of statutory rape can play a significant role in a case like this
In other countries, they are stricter and impose severe punishment
Oh! Another thing mentioned in the ruling statement was that she claimed that he tried to lure other girls at her age
However, Korean investigative agencies did not investigate on the likelihood on potential sexual assault victims
Other countries that values sexual protection on children would have done it
Let us say there are victim 1-5 and each of them are victimized three time. If each assault is sentenced for 5 years, it becomes 75 years in total
That is how other countries do sentences
In Korea, they do not fully apply the year of sentence, beginning the second victim
If 5 years is sentence for rape, it would be something like 5 years plus and 50% of 5 years for the second victim, making it 7 years and half for example
That is the practical reason why sentence in Korea is lower than that of other countries
It is pretty sad
They donÕt have critical minds on sexual assault nor do they have expertise on children psychology
Moreover, the standard itself that projects the sentence is not strict enough so that we believe that the offenders are not being sentenced as they should have
There is another question I want to ask since we are a tech company. They use lie detectors during investigations. Do you think it actually work?
Research on the accuracy of lie detectors produce different results
For example, detecting lies using only the autonomic nervous system results in 70% accuracy
There are spontaneous potential and evoked potential in brainwaves. Evoked potentials produce significant process at 150ms after information is presented
During lie detection, we pay attention to positive spike at 300ms followed by negative spike at 400ms
There is a thing called guilt knowledge test in todayÕs high-tech lie detector
Whoever has guilt knowledge and was at the crime scene would know shape of the knife he used and how many times he stabbed. He would understand all the characteristics at the crime scene
It is hard to understand detailed information without being at the scene. They would not know whether dual-blade, cutter or sashimi knife was used for murder
The real criminal would possess guilt knowledge. So, if we leak out the relevant information, the wavelength differs at 300ms
It is pretty accurate. Nevertheless, there are potential factors that can cause error
For instance, one day a person came to me and he had a brain surgery before
Damaged brain emits wavelength that is different from normal brain. This can be problematic if the conductor can only technically use lie detector without understanding in brain
They should not only interpret brainwave data. A person like this would not produce spike at 300ms because their brain is damaged
Anyway, he came to me and complained because the lie detector produced the result against his favor
Lie detector, although it is much more precise in these day, has become the field with great expertise
Google does research on AI. Do you think the role of profiler or criminal psychologist can be replaced by AI someday?
I do not think it can be replaced by AI. A lot of what profilers do require instinct, although they go through numerous trainings
I am not certain how AI can function in the area where a simple accumulation of knowledge will not be sufficient
However, internet leave traces and a portion of significant information can be found among the traces
For sexual offender in particular, let us make an example of paedophile
Of course, they will show activation once they will photos of children
Moreover, if there is a trace of evidence where they search photos of little kids and other type of relevant hobbies etc., would the accused pled not guilty with the trace of evidence?
Certainly not. However, up to date technology cannot yet prove such things, which is why it will not be adopted as evidence, but it might help to affirm the judge¡¯s decision
In this regard, I think there is a role for AI. On the other hands, this type of information can dominate one¡¯s mental world
The most extreme example is the murder case at an elementary school in Incheon
I think there are too much trash on the internet. I think I said something similar at Naver. It is also the business responsibility to clean them up
Although Korea only ask for moral responsibility, some other countries make it legal responsibility as well
I do not know whether Korea will eventually introduce law in a similar kind. We are easily exposed to unwanted or sensational contents with several clicks
Can IT be ethical? I think AI that clean up the garbages can be an alternative. That is actually why I decided to join this session today
Is value free blog that triggered murder in Incheon not responsible for this?
Should creating the venue that expose younger generation to harmful information be assured as a part of freedom of speech? I am not too sure about that
I believe we have engineers attending this session today. This is something that Google should take into consideration
Did I give you too much homework?
This is something that I am personally curious of. You teach students and give advices
Basically, you live in the world of criminals, even during the event like this today. How do you manage your stress and set it apart from your life?
It is hard to set it apart. I appear to be a gender liberal outside, but I become a sexist at home
For example, I do not worry about my son even when he drinks late outside
But when my daughter does not come home before curfew, I get concerned knowing that how dangerous it is for Korean woman to stay out late and go outside looking for her
My daughter jokes at me saying that I abused her or that I did not beat her does not mean I am not an offender
One thing fortunate is that my husband is very insensitive to these things. He is tone deaf and emotionally draught. He completely blocks the concerns that I have
I think every psychologist thinks similarly while raising their children 294 00:50:53,000 --> 00:51:01,000 Psychology textbooks talk too much about developmental disability such as autism and ADHD and their symptoms
I thought my son had developmental disability when he was young and used to share my concern with husband before going to bed
He used to say not to make a normal kid like a fool. My son is 30 years old now. He might be at your age more or less. My son grew up just fine
One thing that I am thankful for my husband is standing by me to help lower my concern
Otherwise, my concern could have made my son a psycho or social misfit. My son grew up fine thanks to my husband
That is the power of love
I think I will get the blame if we skip Q&A session. Please feel free to point out the raised hands professor
I am not used to this. I think he raised the first hand
Thanks for the opportunity
I think what you said earlier is based on the assumption that our society is getting brutal, but I think I heard the same thing 10 or 20 years ago
It sounds like this generation is premature to me. Is there really increasing number of brutal crimes or new crimes that were not seen before? 305 00:53:07,000 --> 00:53:21,000 Crimes are closely associated with cultural and social development. Crimes disappear as a result of social or cultural changes or vice versa
I am saying this based on crime statistics that is computed every year
There is no longer pickpocketing issue in Korea. They used to cut bags to steal things and now it is disappeared in Korea. Why? There is no one to pass down the technique
It is also partially due to the decrease in youth population. Anyway this kind of manual crimes are on decline
Another interesting statistic is that robbery is decreasing
Robbers used to invade personal properties to make threats to steal stuff and this is totally on decline now, but guess what?
Technology-based crimes are substantially increasing, including voice phishing
This is something I heard recently
Cable TV workers goes into their customer¡¯s houses and install secret cameras here and there
They could have been robbers in the past, but instead, they use technology and install camera where singles live
Everyone can be victimized whether they are man or woman because they are free to do anything at home
They can even be naked and walk around. Uploading the videos online is more profitable than doing robberies
This is very stable and profitable, but robbery stops once you are caught. Technology-based crimes are on rise beyond our imagination
Technology-based sexual crimes are also on rise as well. What is that cause?
People only saw people they knew in the past, but you can easily meet unknown people via online
Adult females can judge and make decisions whether it is dangerous or not
Sexual crimes on youth and disabled are explosively on increase because they lack judgement
Also many Korean chatting applications do not check ID, which allows the adults make easy contact with them
Next question?
Just pick anyone
I think you raise your hand most politely
Thank you. I get scared to watch crime themed TV shows so I only watch them from time to time
I think you have to get emotional or cold-hearted to do your job, which makes it very challenging. Have you ever wanted to quit your job?
I used to
Oh so only in the past?
Another question is about training and instinct and you actually talked about it earlier during the session
I thought anyone is qualified to become criminal psychologist as long as they are well trained, but you put emphasis on instinct
Is there anything you think that makes you differentiated from your colleagues?
Well I guess because of my curiosity, I am still lacking in many aspects to become a great criminal psychologist
I have to get the answer when I am intrigued by something
Being curious can sometimes be wasteful. You have to a lot of energy into it
I am not as smart as others and there are much better psychologists than myself
I think my genuine curiosity has filled up my lacking capacity and that is what brought me up to this point
It also gets stressful, but does not outweigh my curiosity. I do not appreciate being rejected with no ground
I feel missioned to do research to improve our criminal law system and there are answers that criminals can only provide
You will not get these answers from your law textbook
So I send out requests to the Ministry of Justice to meet prisoners for research. But I often get rejected merely because I am a woman
They might think it is dangerous for a woman to meet prisoners in person. Many people give up at this point
They do not agree why they have to beg the government just to arrange the meeting that will bring benefits to the public
It was hard for me to accept it as well but I did not give up. It is stressful process, but satisfying my curiosity by meeting the prisoners few months after is much bigger rewards
Some does not agree with my point. It is all personal preferences and hard to tell which is right and wrong
I will take the last question
I am a big fan of The True Thing That We Wanna Know. One of my concern is that I start to get less sensitive to sensational things
The show does not air serial killing every week, but sensational contents keep hit me to the point where I fast forward most of the sensational materials being aired
I do not think it is my only problem. Do you think being exposed to crime details and recreation of it etc. via media is a side effect?
I wonder your view on it. If this is my personal issue, how should I deal with it?
This is definitely a side effect. People adopt to learn violence based on social modelling theory, which gradually increase their threshold value
For example, the more you watch child porn, the less sensitive you react to it, which partially cause child sexual assault
So the point you raised is definitely correct
Am I less sensitive to it? Seeing corpse photos for autopsy is not as painful anymore
One area I still remain sensitive to react is undeserved death and it is probably because I am catholic
I do not make much money from doing this job, yet I think a lot about what I do because undeserved death is something hard to deal with for me
I am part of a commission of enquiry and I get angry for what happened and strive to offer the best help within legal boundary
I have a reason to pour my energy. I guess this is one area I am still sensitive to
I guess the time is up now. I appreciate for joining us today professor and giving us some foods for thought and new stimulations
Let us give her an applause
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