What kind of person was Kobayashi Hirokazu Sensei?
As a human being, he was very intimidating.
He was like one of those Budoka from the past.
He was a very strict person.
How can I say this...
Whenever he entered a room, the mood would change completely.
I can't claim to have that effect.
A lot of the old Sensei had that sort of aura.
Their bodies emitted that sort of energy, that dignity.
For me, that's what true Budoka felt like.
Their bodies looked like they radiated energy and power.
On a technical standpoint, event though what he did was not showy like what you see in Hong Kong movies,
when he threw you, you could well end up 2 meters away.
His technique had strong absorption followed by throws.
His techniques were like strong waves crashing on a harbor.
He meant that he put most of his power when absorbing.
So it went like "BAM!" and you were thrown 2 meters backwards.
One day, Yabuuchi told me: "His technique must be terribly efficient".
He used to do Karate so he went and threw a punch at Kobayashi Sensei.
We had no idea what happened, but he got thrown straight up in the air and then crashed right there.
We thought: "Wow, he's really strong".
He knew a lot and had a lot of experience.
He spent about 9 years in Tokyo. Was he an uchi deshi at any point?
I don't know whether he was an uchi deshi or not.
Kobayashi Sensei was a lacquer craftsman.
This is a side note but,
I once spoke in private to Tada Sensei at the Nippon Budokan for 20 minutes or so and he said:
"Kobayashi-kun used urushi, right?"
"When we trained together, he must have had rashes!"
Sensei was OK so he said:
"I was alright!"
He practiced [in Tokyo] while also working at same time.
It seems that he often went with the founder, almost every day,
but I don't know what exact status he had as an apprentice.
I believe Kobayashi Sensei met André Nocquet while he was an uchi deshi at Hombu. They maintained contact until the end. Were they close friends?
Yeah, I guess they were close at Hombu.
I think that they separated a bit when he returned to France.
Initially, I think they trained quite a lot together.
I visited several times Nocquet Sensei's group in Europe after Kobayashi passed away,
but I heard that there are several organizations in France.
Therefore, Yokota Sensei of the Tokyo headquarters is now doing the Nocquet group in the UK.
Because the Nocquet group is a fairly large organization.
That's why I thought that Kobayashi was getting along with Nocquet in the beginning, but I don't know about it in details.
Did Kobayashi Sensei talk about how he perceived O Sensei?
O Sensei seems to have had something about him that greatly attracted people.
It seems je was the sort of person that you would follow for the rest of your life.
Many people were dedicating their lives to following him and calling him O Sensei.
I think that Kobayashi was one of those.
It seems that there was something that strongly attracted people.
And in turn, Kobayashi was really attracted to the founder, from the heart.
Did Kobayashi Sensei practice in Iwama?
This is often said, but I don't think there was any exchange at all.
Every year Kobayashi went to Iwama for the Aiki Taisai
and even after passed away, we continue to attend the event.
However, I don't know whether there was any cooperation.
Saito Sensei had his own unique form of weapons.
Kobayashi's weapons form was a bit different.
I am not quite sure what form it was,
but it was a bit different.
Kobayashi was certainly also high-ranking in kendo,
so his sword movements were extremely sharp and fast.
Once, when I practiced with Saito Sensei,
I was really surprised by the pressure he applied.
I was subdued, but without any clashing of the blades.
There was a truly amazing pressure,
but it was different from what I felt with Kobayashi.
I don't understand it that well myself.
Was the Ken very important to Kobayashi Sensei?
In Europe, he made his students practice a lot the Ken and the Jo,
so I think that compared to his Japanese disciples, they practiced it more.
His kiri kaeshi had amazing speed.
He did a lot of left and right cutting practice by himself in front of the mirror.
That made him really fast.
I suspect he was trying to take the centerline with his sword.
But I was too young to understand it at that time because he was so much more advanced than me.
I don't know where his attention on the center was when he was doing this,
but it is certain that he was doing it.
He was emphasizing this.
We know that Kobayashi Sensei was acquainted to Hisa Takuma. How did they meet?
He didn't talk about it often.
The story goes that Hisa Sensei was quite elderly and that Kobayashi was still young
Hisa liked him.
There was a big university in Osaka called Momoyama Gakuin Daigaku.
Hisa Sensei had established an Aikido club there. [Note: The club was actually started by Kobayashi Kiyohiro, a student of Hisa]
The first captain was Kobayashi [Kiyohiro] Sensei.
It was the Kobayashi Sensei who is now the General Secretary of the Daito-ryu Takumakai.
At that time, Hisa Sensei said: "Kobayashi [Hirokazu]-kun, since I'm old, please take care of Momoyama."
That's why Kobayashi [Kiyohiro] Sensei and Kawabe Sensei, from the Takumakai
also learned Aikido at Momoyama Univesrity from Kobayashi [Hirokazu], in addition to learning Daito-ryu [with Hisa].
Did Kobayashi Sensei learn Daito-ryu form Hisa Sensei?
Rather than learning from him,
he must have seen some techniques and used them as reference.
For example, on Nikyo, he took like this, not like that.
I think that these are hints that he got things from him, like how to connect your opponent.
I myself also shared a lot with Kawabe Sensei from Daito-ryu when we did demonstrations together.
The wonderful hand movements are a great inspiration.
That's why though I do not know about a formal connection, I got some hints about it.
Was Kobayashi Sensei ever involved with the Kansai Aikido Club?
The Daito-ryu club?
G. E.: Yes, the Daito-ryu club.
Kobayashi often used to go to the demonstrations,
as a representative of the Buikukai organization,
so I think there was a connection.
Some people say that Kobayashi Sensei was a Daito-ryu Shihan, is this true then?
My impression is...
though I haven't heard anything formally,
there seemed to be some form remaining in the teachnique that I saw.
I think that Kobayashi's form was his own though.
Although I think that it was picked up rather than learned formally,
I don't know whether Hisa Sensei taught him separately.
I made this assumption myself, judging on what I saw, but I don't know if it's true.
There is no evidence to support that claim, right?
No, there is none.
Regarding the fact that he might have been invited by Hisa Sensei as a guest teacher,
I never heard anything about this from Hisa Sensei's old students.
So I don't think it's true.
What is your relationship with the Takumakai these days?
The Takumakai is a big Daito-ryu group.
I think that Mori Sensei is building a strong organization and I think it has now been recognized as a non-profit foundation.
There are a lot of students in the Kansai area.
Kobayashi [Kiyohiro] Sensei and Kawabe Sensei learned from my master Kobayashi,
so I could see many things at various Daito-ryu demonstrations.
I was able to see meaningful things immediately and add them as a plus in my Aikido.
I'm happy about that.
Altough I have little experience with Kobayashi [Kiyohiro] Sensei,
there are similarities between his and Kawabe Sensei's techniques,
and Kawabe Sensei's technique is the one I know better.
Outside Aikido, the technique of those teachers if what I like best.
They are wonderful people.
What are the specificities of Kobayashi Sensei's Aikido?
Since you have spent two days doing Aikido with us, I think that you already understand this quite a bit,
that in aikido, there are vertical and horizontal kuzushi.
In vertical kuzushi, you should strike the opponent inside yourself or and enter from yourself.
How do you drop your opponent's power down or drop the center?
Kobayashi's technique resided in a kot of horizontal kuzushi.
I think that power was very strong, so how to make use of it?
The other thing is the tsugi ashi.
This is the fact of the back legs chasing the body after moving.
J. D.: The movement of Kendo...
Yes, that's right, the forward walk.
He did that, and I do it too, but the hakama was hiding it.
He used to have a wide stance when he was young, but later, it became quite narrow.
Should you enter and chase with the back leg, or retract the front leg?
Kobayashi was very strong on the techniques of absorption.
As for the hands, from the second [nikyo] you turn on the right like kote [gaeshi],
the the kote turns back to nikyo,
the sankyo turns like this back to kote,
Those are the principles.
then yonkyo is taken like this and returned to kote like this.
Those changes in positions are very characteristic.
Just via this training, you can probably get quite soft and strong.
It is difficult if done with just the soft one,
and people with strong arms are more difficult to move.
This is an exercise to build up strength.
As I mentioned earlier, there are grabs like this in Daito-ryu.
I wonder if such things were included though.
I too also use a lot of solicitations like this, that will attract you and turn on this side,
there are a lot of feeling like these in the techniques.
It is not a technique to cut as such, but you must twist it with your body.
In my case, I twist like this from my knee,
but Kobayashi was really soft and it felt like this.
I think this was a characteristic feature.
It should not be done as a simple gestures, but the essence of it is oi ashi and tsugi ashi.
J.D. What about the kaeshi waza?
He liked the kaeshi waza.
As you know, the kaeshi waza are really difficult if someone really grabs.
It hard to counter a technique that is applied efficiently.
It seems that he liked such things as stopping the opponent's power, returning it softly.
He was extremely good at kaeshi waza.
Some students of Kobayashi Sensei teach suwari waza in seiza position. Do you do it? Where does it come from?
Do I keep my toes up or down?
Personally, I keep my toes up.
It comes naturally to me.
Kobayashi often kept his down.
Maybe he did it because he felt stronger like that.
If done improperly, it tends to pull.
But that's not what it's about.
Doing that will rotate your elbow from the shoulder.
He must have been doing it from his center.
Not like this
but like this from the center. Not your hands.
That way he could pin before the feet and the whole toe issue became irrelevant.
That's a good question.
As you know, with Aikido
We go [on torifune] from right to left, no, left to right.
Kobayashi was doing it there as well.
He spoke about loosening up the body
and generally doing things in the set order.
I've never really asked about it myself.
The traditional way of doing it is
a lot of tapping, knocking
and bending over and stretching completely.
Honestly, I'm not sure if it has any real meaning.
Done completely, the entire process takes about 30 minutes.
It takes a pretty long time.
We don't dedicate as much time here currently
but I'd love to see how it's thought of and done in Europe.
Yes, in europe, those taiso can take up to 30 minutes.
That makes sense.
Training is done in one-hour sessions nowadays in Japan.
And I think it's best to do these warmups
even if its just for health reasons for ten to thirty minutes.
Assuming that we're training
at an Aikido classroom - excuse me - dojo
I believe these warmups are like misogi.
Every practitioner should do it regularly and often.
And it should be maintained.
I agree with that statement.
Before you even began training
you would need to walk into the dojo, bow, and clean.
After finishing all that,
that's when you'd consider warming up or doing our modern stretches.
Then, when the teacher would arrive, you'd greet them sitting properly.
These are our martial arts traditions. The proper way of doing things.
Now we don't have enough time for anything. Things just aren't like they used to be.
I'm really happy that you're interested in my techniques.
But my basic techniques are... how do I put it?
Well, put simply, they're crude.
Crude meaning that they are not very graceful.
These are forms, techniques that I've worked on all throughout my training
There is no way to improve your kata other than repitition.
Taking any breaks will affect your technique.
Your kata won't be good anymore after a year-long break, for example.
The real difficulty is in the practice.
I really think it's curious that people are interested in my techniques.
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