Hello everybody welcome to The County Seat
I'm your host Chad Booth we are taking a look
this last week before elections at for those of
you who have not voted yet two of the critical
issues that are on referendum votes there are
four questions that will be state wide dealing
with redistricting and commission and there will
be one with medical marijuana the hot issue
and gas tax and we are going to focus on the
will start with medical marijuana a debate for 3
to 4 years joining us for our conversation are 3
people that take very different perspectives on
it from law enforcement Sheriff Paul Wimmer
Tooele County, a pharmacist and a member of
the State senate Evan Vickers and a county
commissioner from Box Elder County Stan
Summers who has close connections on the
medical use side of marijuana. So we will start
and open this up how did this end up getting on
the referendum instead of being dealt with in
the Senate I will throw this to our legislator
here for a starter.
Thanks Chad good question. The challenge we
have had in the legislature we have been
dealing with it for about 4 years is that you are
dealing with a substance that is considered
illegal by federal law. So the legislature has
been very careful on how to approach that it's
very difficult to throw it to the wind and say we
are going to violate federal law and move
forward with something I think there there has
been a pretty good perspective that people
recognize there is some value there if we can
find a path and do it in a safe and productive
way. So the challenge has been we can move
incrementally and so we move forward
incrementally last year myself and
Representative Brad Daw passed a right to try
bill and started the process on how medication
would be delivered through cannabis
medication be delivered but it is not going fast
enough for those that are advocates and would
like to see the proposition move forward. So
they put together this proposition and it's on
the ballot they have done a great job of
collecting signatures and moving forward the
challenge you have now is it's like any other
piece of legislation that is what it is it's a piece
of legislation the challenge for us is as a
legislation we can go through a vetting process
multiple committees and narrow it down where
they have just one shot at it and it's on the
ballot and its up or down with the public and
then it's up to the legislature to try figure out
how to implement it.
had a big compromise meeting just a couple
weeks ago?
Absolutely and I have been a part of that and
there is some really good language that has
come together and we get people from both
sides that I never thought would be in the same
room together have been working together on
this to come together language that is more
acceptable to everyone involved the legislature
still those from the proposition would like to
see it go farther there are people on the other
side would like to see nothing happen but I
think moving forward in a very good
compromise piece of legislation and the
governor has indicated that he will call us into
special session and we will move forward with
that one way or the other on the ballot.
So I am going to talk to Stan, you are more
favorable about having access to medical
marijuana so what is your perspective about
this ballot.
I think what Senator Vickers said I have been a
part of this for the last 4 years and trying to
implement it we were there with the right to try
bill and the cannabis the time we did the right
to try bill was actually taken out of the right to
try bill the first time we tried it. Just for the
plane fact that I do not think they were ready to
implement that. The last while they gave it to
the people that were on hospice and you could
do it for a 3 month period and then if you were
still alive you go back again and get another 3
month period if you were still alive I think
coming out of those couple things like you said
there just was not enough broader sense of the
people that maybe needed it for other ailments.
I am in total agreement the fact that the feds
need to step up and so something with this to
make it better for law enforcement they need
to get it to a schedule 2 instead of a class 1 to
where everybody can actually legally do it
hopefully with the stuff that is going through
the compromise that when it does pass that
some of us that need the medicine now will be
able to cross state lines and get it legally. My
biggest problem with the thing all along is that
everybody who is doing it illegally is already
doing it illegally and there are those people that
want to try to do it legally cannot actually do it
legally so hopefully with this grand compromise
we will be able to have people to have the
access who actually need it and do it legally.
Sheriffs Association has not been very favorable
We are mostly concerned about the slide into
recreational. Just watching other states being
cautioned by our counterparts in Colorado and
Oregon and other states and watching it slide
from a medical perspective into a recreational
perspective is one of our biggest challenges or
concerns with it. Yes there is the element it is
against federal law and we struggle being a
society that is ruled by law we have a hard time
any time thumbing our nose at a statute
whether it be federal or state.
in law enforcement you pull someone over
drawing that line as what is the situation do I
have on my hands, is that a concern?
Well Proposition 2 is especially troubling in that
regard because in Prop 2 it is presumed that
they are possessing it legally so you would have
to have other evidence to suggest that they are
somehow processing it illegally so simply seeing
marijuana sitting in a car does not give us
sufficient evidence to search or anything of the
sort. It is presumed though rebuttable it is
presumed that it is being legally possessed
unless you have something to suggest
otherwise. Simply the possession of marijuana
or its tools or its devices for use is not illegal.
Let's take a quick break here and deal with a
commercial when we come back and address
how we move forward if it passes what we do if
it does not. Be right back with the County Seat.
Welcome back to The County Seat we are
continuing our conversation about a couple of
initiatives on the ballot we are talking about the
medical marijuana proposition 2 so my next
question if this passes are we going to be able
to protect the citizenry stop the slide and be
able to craft legislation that will keep it in a
medical environment. Do you have a route
forward on what is dealt with in the
compromise? I know you have had a lot of
structure in this as you have a pharmacist point
of view.
Absolutely at this point it does not matter what
happens on the ballot. It does not matter if
Prop 2 passes or fails the legislature and
governor have come together along with those
groups on both sides and agreed on some
language we can move forward with and so that
language will be implemented in a special
session most likely in November or early
December right after the election. So let's say
go down two paths if the proposition passes it
becomes law for a moment until the next piece
of legislation is passed so that would be the
compromised legislation. If the proposition fails
then the law is still the way it is now and then
when we pass the law in with the special
session that becomes a law and moving forward
its much safer path is provides medication to a
patient so it meets those needs but it does so in
a fashion where we can control it and quite
frankly minimize and eliminate the black market
through the process as well.
Do you agree with that black market reduction
if you honing it in little bit better? You still
going to have enforcement problems aren't
that law enforcement in general though we
have not read through all 126 pages yet at least
I have not personally the compromise has some
promise and I think it is a better product then
what Prop 2 is producing.
Excellent. I have one last question this actually
came from a viewer that knew we were going
to be discussion this topic, don't we already
have cannabinoid oils and some of the extracts
available through prescription?
get from a drug store and things like that.
Certain things do not work you go into a
doctor's office and maybe you are allergic to
Augmentin or you are allergic to this stuff some
of the stuff that is coming out of what you are
talking about Marinol and all those other things
actually do not work for everybody so I am a
diabetic and I have to have certain diabetic
medicine and I think it's the same thing that is
going to happen with the cannabis thing you are
going to find out the different strains and
different doses help different people at
different avenues so yes that stuff is available
and I can tell you from personal experience with
my son that Marinol was worse on him and less
effective than anything else would have been so
I think sometimes look at some of the things
that are happening like you said is still think is
somebody pulls somebody over from I80
coming from Wendover and they have a bail of
marijuana in the back of their car I think you will
say wait a minute is that for distribution or if
they have 1000 pills in the back of their car
some of these things are already happing so I
honestly do not think they can slide because I
think the legislation is going to do a good job
trying to get it together and people who want
to do it recreationally are already doing
recreational so I do not think it will be a
problem at that point.
would you rather see it pass or not pass.
Down. 30% are already out there the last poll
said it will pass 60 to 40.
We would be against it passing.
We have finished talking about Prop 2 and now
next question is Gas Tax and School funding on
the County Seat.
Welcome back to The County Seat we are going
to our second position taking up question 1 kind
of how it works sometimes joining us for our
conversation about the gas tax question that is
on your ballot are 2 commissioners that have a
lot experience with roads Tooele County
Commissioner Shawn Milne, and Darin
Bushman who is a commissioner form Piute
County. And I appreciate both of you to take
time to join us today. So basically question 1 as
it has been described by the people support it is
that it is not really an education tax being
hoisted as a tax on fuel. What it is that we are
putting dedicated tax on fuel so that the
general funding that has been taken and given
to road mattanance can be applied to education
at a ratio of 70% and 30% of that money will
still go to the counties to pay for roads along
with the tax that they get in addition. So it's
not really an education tax on fuel. What say
you?
I'd say that's a shell game. I mean why we want
to fund education this route why not straight
forward and honest with the public and fund
education the way we design to fund education
and that is through property taxes school trust
lands administration etc. The other thing the
question is there is much vagueness to the
question. There is a lot of question as you know
from previous gas tax increases how do we
distribute it is it point of collection is it a
population base destruction. The current
formula as you know is incredibly complex so in
the last gas tax increase there was a big debate
after the tax passed through of how that
distribution works. A lot of urban counties felt
really slighted about how that distribution was.
A lot of rural counties felt distribution was
slighted as well after it was renegotiated there
is a ton of question.
So Commissioner Milne what say you?
I agree with Commissioner Bushman I think that
as complex as accounting methods already are
for tax distribution and collection that a
simplified approach is probably the best. We
have all heard that keep it simple stupid right,
so KISS let's keep this simple. There are those
that feel sales tax distribution has been
improperly in their view moved from education
funding to transportation funding then fix that
and likewise let's keep the gas tax solely for
road maintenance and construction. Right now
we know that it is woefully underfunded it does
not even come close to just maintaining Tooele
county our true costs so lasts make sure that
transportation related labeling is transportation
label expenses. Help us do our job easier.
But as the opponent describe it they would say
that indeed its transparent they are the same
general funds that have usually been shifted
transportation apportion of that now shifted to
education but the gas tax really is the gas tax
used for transportation.
Well it's a marketing game, Chad. The reality is
it is a lot easier to sell funding for school
children then it is to sell funding for roads. And
so this has been played out in my opinion as a
marketing game. We also know that gas tax is a
challenging in today's environment with electric
vehicles and all the other things we now have
vehicles that are running our roads and using
our roads that do not consume an ounce of
gasoline so the question is fuel tax even the
right approach to funding roads at this point. I
will tell you another thing that comes into play,
if you look at a percentage of household income
rural Utah spends a much larger percentage of
their household income on fuel than urban
Utah. We do not drive 3 blocks and get on the
tracks and go to work or jump on the bus in our
front yard and go to work. We drive 62 miles a
day to work every day okay. You know we were
down in the Robbers Roost area one of our
ranchers has a ranch in Robbers Roost he also
has a ranch clear on the west side of Utah all on
the Nevada border so these people are
spending thousands and thousands of dollars
on fuel a year comparative to our Urban
counterparts. If you take that Chad and look at
where are all the school children in the state in
numbers? Four counties in urban Utah. That is
pretty much where we are. So we are going to
unfairly burden rural Utah to fund education for
urban Utah? That's their argument. There are
no details in question 1 how the fuel tax is going
to be allocated and dispersed what about points
of collection all the details are not there it's
really a very vague question for the voters to try
and make a decisions on and I think this
confusion for calling it education when it's
really for roads and playing the shell game I
think it's a bad deal.
Your chance for rebuttal. I am not going to
disagree entirely with that again I had not even
thought of prior to Commissioner Bushman
noting that rural and urban divide how that
might come into play here it is a prudent thing
to bring up and certainly may not be addressed
in the question don't see any narrative of that
in the voter information but it is something that
certainly should be considered. All too often
politicians we are tempted to behave quickly
and I think just like your last panel on Prop 2
addressed sometimes the more methodical
approach while stretching out the timeline and
can be very frustrating into certain
demographics that we are elected to serve is
probably the prudent thing after all if any of
these were simple they would already have
been solved. Solved by people before us with a
lot less cost in what we end up to fix all these
problems. But having this conversation here I
hope and I trust that did take place up at the
state so I do not discount that it did all too
often local legislators for the city town and
county level are excluded from that yet we are
the ones engaged the most with the popularity
because of the very nature of being local
elected officials if we do not have that
explanation we are not brought into the
conversation early on that can hurt the chances
of something like this passing. Even if it's a
good thing I wish we could do something like
gas tax and I think Commissioner Bushman
brings up a very good debatable point is the gas
tax the way it's always been done the most
appropriate way for us to continue doing it
going forward with new vehicle technology
greater miles per gallon. 1.2 million dollar
stretch of 2 lane asphalt paved road in a rural
county like ours if we are to continue to
maintaining these so these assets don't fail.
Public education needs to have an appropriate
revenue stream I am not one of those that
believes that the gas tax is the proper place to
blend those two together. I want education
regardless of another vehicle to succeed I need
road maintenance at a county level where it
won't do anything with public education to
succeed. And I think the simpler form for the
tax payer to understand is to make sure the
labels match the intended use.
Very good we will talk about a solution right
after this break.
Welcome back to The County Seat we are
talking about question 1 all the other state wide
referendum votes are propositions one is a
question it sounds like it is less binding? Is it
less binding?
It really is a question and there is no binding
piece of legislation to support it. It really has to
go through the legislative process to arrive at
something so really the voters are being asked a
question on something there are absolutely no
details flushed out at this point,
I think it gives a good poll that detailing is what
is intended to do even in this dialogue right
here I hope that more citizens pay attention to
things like this and engage us at the local level
as well as their state reps and senators.
So we just went through our first gas tax
increase in a number of years what 2 years ago
and it had some distribution problems on it that
had to be tweaked now we are looking at
adding another ten cents there are many who
feel oh great adding ten cents while gas prices
drop but also remember not too many years
ago when gas was sitting at the cusp of $4 a
gallon and now looking at 4.10 as price goes up
that much doesn't that create a lot of burden
that may be an economic crippler?
It may very well the reality remains. Roads are
expensive and I think that I did not know before
I was a commissioner even as a part time city
councilman before I knew they were expensive
and these were a big hit to our municipal
budget but I did not truly know even then and
certainly not prior just how expensive that road
in front of my house is and the road that
connects from my neighborhood to the next
until it gets to main street. Asphalt is not cheep
the same cost we pay out of our pocket as
residence your municipal and county and state
wide government entities have the same thing
they need to do for their vehicle fleet that
those that actually put that pavement down
and throw seal on top of it its equally expensive
and the price per barrel goes up it goes up for
those tyr8ing to provide that service if it goes
over several service like it did during the great
recession I understand how I impacts a
household budget but it impacts your local
government as well and we need to maintain
those road yes it's going to be felt at the
pocketbooks as it is so too by the government
entities that service the people.
Any thoughts.
I think when we look at stuff like this Chad we
need to look at it so it's a fair tax and look
across the state and understand that we have
urban and rural people. Rural people do not
have access to trax they do not have bus systems
they run a lot more miles than our urban
counter parts and in think we have to look at it
across the state.
As evidenced by the fact that both of you drove
well over 30 miles just to get to this
conversation today.
Yes, mine will be about 400
Mine is 300, but only 30 miles back.
I know somebody is very pleased you said that.
That's all the time we have. Election day is
coming up I hope if you have not cast your
ballot I hope this gives you some clarity on a
couple of the issues that we feel are important
issues here at the County Seat and remember
local government is where your life happens be
engaged and part of the solution and we will
see you next week on The County Seat.
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