This is Deliverance Ministry.FM, video cast, episode 11
Welcom to this episode of Deliverance Ministry.FM where we give you proven insights about the
demonic realm and deliverance ministry so you could wage spiritual warfare more effectively.
My name is Dr Don Ibbitson and I'm here with my co-host and colleague Dr Phyllis Tarbox.
Good afternoon, Phyllis.
How are you today?
We've got an interesting topic today.
We're going to talk about five common myths that many people have about the ministry of
deliverance.
For.
Get into that though, I want to just point it to our web site and highlight some things
maybe we haven't touched on in too many episodes before.
Let you know about some free downloads we have on our websites are and counseling.com
website is for of course the counseling center and a and B Academy Dot [inaudible] is for
the counseling academy.
Some great handouts.
They're totally free.
Just need to sign up for them and they're downloaded.
One is 10 facts every Christian should know about deliverance ministry.
Another one is seven keys to becoming a successful deliverance minister.
For those of you who might, might, might have an interest in learning how to do deliverance
or learning more about it, and then a third one is seven questions to answer before becoming
a Christian counselor geared toward those people who may be called feel they're called
to the Ministry of Christian counseling.
There's an opportunity there, even on the down roads to sign up as well to receive alerts
from us.
Basically emails we don't do.
We don't spam you, we don't overwhelm you, but you can learn about new articles, podcasts,
and videos as we publish them.
And finally, just one last point is just stay tuned at the end.
I want to give you some information on how you can receive a free download of our deliverance
Deliverance ministry, plain and simple manual.
So with that, um, little brief preamble, I want to move right into the main podcast.
The topic that we have for today, once again, is this realm of um, addressing some myths
people have.
Phyllis, we've been in deliverance ministry a long time minister to a lot of people, had
a lot of questions about it.
And there is a lot of confusion, I think, wrong understanding that people have about
deliverance ministry, don't you think church since I was five years old, and that was one
of the big things that got me involved in it was because I'd never been taught anything
about it.
So a lot of people don't know, a lot of people don't believe in it.
First of all, I don't believe the documents for it and we're going to talk about that,
but the other one, even those that do, um, there's just because there is such a little
teaching and most churches of any stripe really don't really talk much about the demonic realm
or deliverance ministry.
And so there's where there's a lacking information.
People tend to, maybe we'll use different things.
They just come up with their own ideas.
And so we want to address today just five of the more common myths that we see him probably
worth mentioning.
Been around our center and our academy for Awhile.
We, we did a video, a youtube video series on this sometime back then, so you can find
those on our website.
But one podcast, we want to kind of hit the highlights and talk about five common myths
that people have about the ministry of deliverance.
And the first one, myth number one is that deliverance ministry is fake and that it's
not for today.
There's many people that believe that.
What do we say to them?
Well, I asked him if they don't believe the whole Bible.
That usually gets some kind of shaken up.
I mean I've had some pretty big leaders that have come in and say I believe in baptizing
and evangelizing and preaching the Gospel, but I can't come into agreement with delivering
sets a little too far fetched for me.
And my response to them is always so then you don't believe the whole Bible.
And then they look at me and they say, what do you mean I don't believe the whole Bible?
And I said, well evidently you believe in Mark Sixteen versus 15 and 16 about preaching
the Gospel and evangelizing.
But in verse 17, which is also in red, Jesus saying these signs will follow those that
believe in my name.
So it was a, it was a future commissioning to his children and what they were going to
be doing in his absence, a greater works and that's always my question and I said, so you
believe in part of what Jesus said, but not all of what Jesus said.
And that usually kind of stops the argument.
I mean some would just.
Well they would look at that and say, well you know, that was true for them, but that
just kind of ended that we don't need that anymore.
But I just looked at so many other scriptures just say, well Jesus is the same yesterday,
today and forever.
And he did say, if you believe in me, you will do the things I've been doing in deliverance
clearly is a big part of what Jesus did.
So
we don't need it now more than ever.
I don't know what we need because look around just getting pretty dark.
Well, it is and know we're giving you kind of theoretical answers, church answers here.
But truthfully, for you and me personally, this is something that we see.
We weren't been in the Ministry of deliverance for years, for banner for well over 17 years
and I know you've been here for many years as well.
The we've seen the ministry of deliverance.
We see lives changed every day.
The Ministry of Deliverance, certainly it is for today.
It is not.
It is not fake.
It's now I'm going to.
I'll be the first to say if you want an interesting exercise, just go on Google or youtube sometime
and just google deliverance ministry and watch some of the.
The the way.
There's different ways of doing it.
We've talked about that and different approaches.
I think that's why they put us on that Ling television, so side by side with some another
ministry that does do it quite different and everybody has their different style.
Doesn't mean that one's more effective than the other, but that like you use the big Mac
analogy.
I like that.
It's not just a cookie cutter across the board.
Everybody's making the same thing.
It looks very different, different places, but it is necessary and it is for today.
Yeah, I think that that's the point, and I don't know, you know, the proof of the pudding
is in the eating and we can debate theological things were not theologians were counselors
and deliverance ministry, but there should be fruit in the fact is there is a lot of
fruit, good fruit today in different deliverance ministries.
There was a lot of excellent reputable deliverance ministries and, and you're right, there's
very, it's kind of a cottage industry of the body of Christ is not a lot of.
There's some many things we do believe in common.
I mean we both have bookshelves full of books from people and there's a lot of things that
are, that are very common, but people do things differently, but the fact is there is a lot
of fruit and people don't think you can argue against that, so that, that's a myth that
it's, that it's, that it's fake, you know?
Yes.
Some things look a little showy and you know, I am say I can't, I'm not going to vote for
deliverance ministry or I don't know, every deliverance ministry, but the Ministry of
Deliverance, it's, it's real.
And it is for today
life, we see lives changed every day and I'd love that part about our job, but for further
on that they can just visit some of the testimonies.
Yeah, I mean they're out there so I don't know how, where that comes from that I think
it's just people who just have their own ideas about certain parts of scripture, they just
don't.
What do you like that?
And so they, they tend to ignore it, but we view that as a giant myth that needs to be
dispelled is real.
And it is for today.
Myth number two that we want to talk about is that deliverance has to be messy, that
it can be all over the waterfront as they say.
You can watch a lot of.
There's different ways of doing it.
There's a lot of manifestations.
I mean there's, you know, there's yelling, there can be slithering around, there can
be body fluids involved, it can be all sorts of things.
But, but I mean, does it have to be messy?
No, it doesn't have to be messy.
I mean, it can be very ordered.
We, we, you know, we, I think we spend a lot of time on the front end of it as far as the
doors that are open and making sure those doors are shut so that when we pray for people,
those spirits don't have a lot to hold on to.
I mean they really, their legal rights had been cancelled.
They have to go, but you know, I will say that we make a statement like that and a lot
of times you'll have a big manifestation in the middle of, of the deliverance in one of
the last big delivering sessions that we did in a group.
It was kind of loud, but it's not messy.
It was ordered and had his start time.
We had finished time, you know, we allow the Holy Spirit to come in and do what the Holy
Spirit is going to do.
And then we see good fruits.
So
is many times.
Is it say messy?
Sometimes there's resistance or this can be yelling or just give me a lot of manifestations
are experienced many times just because that spirit has a legal right to be there.
It would it be like somebody trying to kick you out of your house and if you were up to
date on the mortgage and there was no eviction notice, you'd put up a fight.
Yeah, I think that's, that's the analogy is it?
And now, now as you say, sometimes it is missy and certain, um, there's approaches to that
are, they're more likely to make it more of a spectacle because it gets people's attention.
And I mean we've, we had an account one time we were in a, in a, in a church and then in
a Hispanic church.
And why did you tell the folks about that?
The experience that we, that we had there where we took the everence into that truth.
So they were afraid of us.
I mean, we've talked about this a little bit before, but they were afraid of us because
they were used to the pentecost way of the tambourine banging in the barf bags and the
sitting on people.
I think they were afraid.
We get asked all the time, you're going to yell at me, you're gonna knock me down.
So when we came in and they were, we were peaceful, it surprised them, it really surprised
them and they, they became some of our greatest fans because they, they were, they liked our
new way.
But you know, honestly, I've seen a lot from that Lisa Ling show that we did also to have
a lot of, uh, of educated women that had been part of a pentecostal church that didn't want
to go through that form of meant messy again.
And they liked what they saw with us and they came because it seemed like it, it appealed
to them an ordered a way of doing things and getting it done without all that mess.
And so doesn't have to be met.
I think we want to be clear here.
There's different ways of doing it.
There's different approaches and pastors do it differently.
As I said, there's very little standards.
So the question is, does it have to be messy?
I think the point we're trying to make it does not have to be that way.
That's one style.
Some people, you know, there's an expectation, sometimes it is going to be that way, but,
but, but our, our view as quite plainly as it should go smoothly, it should go quietly.
Does that mean there's never any manifestations know our typical manifestations?
Many times you're going to include yawning, coughing, maybe crying, maybe some burping,
some eye twitching, some facial things, but sometimes there's yelling and sometimes people
will physically rise up.
So people who seen spirits, people rise up and, and so, uh, in uh, in, you know, so that
we're not moved by any event, we just keep riding, right?
We just say, you know, we're, we're in the quiet and gentle as best we can.
So it doesn't have to be that way.
It can be done quietly and gently.
And once again, I read many kick counts at different ministries who a very similar approach,
you know, sometimes one on one or in a group thing, they just do it quietly.
Demons aren't death.
Even the deaf and dumb spirit can hear you.
You don't need to yell at them.
We're certainly not.
I mean, I heard accounts, you know, one guy administered to a very slight, um, you know,
not a heavy, not a big guy, young, he's [inaudible] deliverance.
She said there was five guys on him lying on top of them and see people involve doing
ministry where a young girl through like two men across, you know, literally across the
stage and our church.
And it's like, no, that's real, but it doesn't, it doesn't have to be that way.
So I think that's just one of those things where sometimes it is messy, but certainly
it does not have to be messy.
So we would consider that a myth.
The has to be messy.
Myth number three that we want to talk about, we're going to bring some clarity on this
term about demon possession and demon oppression.
But one of the myths people heard is that that Christians cannot be demon oppressed,
even demonically, oppressed.
And so, um, we, you know, let, let's, let's stage set the stage for that.
Let's begin with explaining to people what exactly did did Jesus do to Satan as demonic
kingdom on the cross fellas.
And He defeated that kingdom.
And that we're still in a daily battle, we're still in a war, there are battles, but um,
we've already won from a position of victory from the shed blood on the cross.
So we have to appropriate that victory.
We know that Satan fell to Earth a little time and great fury and he is here.
This is a place where he has power and, but he doesn't have authority over the children
of God.
So we can be, we can be influenced or pressed, tormented and harassed by these spirits, but
we cannot be possessed.
And I think that's the distinction to make what we can't be.
Right?
Well, exactly.
And that's, that's the word you used the word possessed.
And because this whole notion of demon possession versus demon old pressure.
And we want to just clarify that in our terminology.
The word possession implies ownership.
Somebody only do they possess you.
And analogy might be termites in a house.
OK?
I've never heard anybody say their house got termites in the household.
Won't see many townhouses.
Termite possessed is like, no, it's your house, you own it is.
But whatever, it's your house.
You got termites in it and it's like those termites, we need to destroy those termites.
You know, the analogy for, for demonic spirits is that, you know, we have.
Our body is a temple of the Holy Spirit and we belong to God.
The Bible says, a Christian now believer, um, we become God possess, become old.
Jesus redeemed us with his blood, redeemed us from darkness into light.
And we belong to God.
We become a child of God, but we can have these demonic spirits literally in the temple.
And you know, just to be clear, we don't.
The deliverance ministry is the driving out of demons, demons.
So we're not going to be demon possessed, but we can certainly be demonically.
Oppressed picks her for that, for those
good cause.
You know, I'm all about the wedding stuff.
Now we've got a wedding coming up in our family.
So worry about that, but when, but when you accept Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior,
I like to put it this way.
You get the ring of the Holy Spirit gets put on your hand.
When you said I do protest, you are ready for the marriage supper
of the lamb so that, that you're just waiting for the final walk out of that, but you've
already said I do.
You're already possessed by your future husband.
That's the way I asked girls.
Like to look at it, bring clarity to the dictionary definition of this.
I looked it up before we did this podcast, so I don't want somebody think I just got
this off the top of my head, but it says oppression is the exercise of authority or power in a
burdensome, cruel, or just that's.
I think you made a key point that um, the demonic kingdom, they don't have authority,
but they do have power.
They still have the power and many people would have been 10.
Well, that's out of, out of ignorance.
We don't know that.
They just have what we let them have and out of ignorance or fear I, yeah, we just, I don't
want to go down that road, but to anybody see the demons don't have power.
I just don't.
That's not true.
They do have power and they can certainly though even demon spirits inside of this be
exercise that power in a burdensome, cruel, or unjust manner, right?
So that can be in the realm of, I'm just in the realm of dope of desk depression or anger
or lust or bitterness, pornography, bitterness of fear, just this things that people need
deliverance from.
So now, once again, just to be clear, deliverance, the Ministry of deliverance is the driving
out of demons and so Christians then clearly can be demonically oppressed.
Certainly internally if they're inside of us, but, but what demons exist outside of
his [inaudible], right?
Well, how can Christians be effected by demons outside of a person?
Certainly they'll, they'll try to get you to come into agreement with them, but they
mess with your thinking process, right?
I mean, they tried to put the thoughts in trying to come into agreement with them.
Then you will open up that door and then they will come in.
I think that's.
Yeah, that's, you know, that's a key thing to understand that we're born again, spirit
filled bible-believing Christians, believers, sons of God can be oppressed by the spirits
and even spirits outside of us has the ability to put thoughts are mine, and they're able
to bring sickness and disease upon God's people.
I mean that's oppression to people who killed by his stripes you were healed, but Christians
still gets sick.
They still have access to her body to bring sickness and they still have access to her
soul.
No, God wants us healed by his stripes, Ye were healed, but just like you know, we need
to appropriate that healing.
We need to appropriate the freedom and deliverance as well.
Through the New Testament, you'll see that many of the healings that Jesus performed
were directly related to deliverance, driving out a demon so people would get their physical.
Yeah.
The one that I referenced quite a bit in teaching is the one where women's came across a woman,
and I don't remember the exact reference, but easy to find, but it says she was crippled
by a spirit of infirmity and so it's pretty clear.
It's not a stretch to say he didn't heal that woman, he called that spirit out of her.
There was something that was affecting her physically and he called that spirit out and
then she got her healing so Christians can handle.
Yeah, somebody said that.
That's true.
They can have whatever they want.
And so, um, the whole round.
But I think he gets pointing worth emphasizing, yes, Jesus defeated the devil on the cross,
but we need to appropriate that victory.
The victory has been won, but there are still battles that are ongoing because this devil,
the Bible is pretty clear that Satan, as a new testament scripture that seems like a
roaring lion, and I think by extension we take that to these devils.
They're like the lions out there looking for a home they may devour.
And James James [inaudible] says, we must resist the devil.
So I think he's, you know, people say, well, he's just Satan.
Well that's, it's not an extension, not a big extensive to say we need to resist these
demonic spirits.
We need to discern them and we need to resist them.
And so, to the extent that they're affecting us, Christians are being demonically all pressed,
right?
So that's, I think is a fair distinction.
We still need to.
And we, you know, we talked about deliverance and resistant in devils and yes, we agree
Christians don't want to be demon focused, but we need to be, we're in a battle and we
need to understand our enemy.
We need to be aware, right?
You know, and part of our thing that we help people with is part of the process has given
them some daily in the evening declarations basically to do and to um, take ownership
over their situation and try to resist it.
The monochrome, breaking curses and breaking soul ties in, that sort of thing.
So Christians certainly can be demonically oppressed.
So that's, hopefully we've dealt with myth number three, number four, um, maybe ties
in a little bit.
Myth number four ties in with myth number two in their census is, you know, maybe it
doesn't even has to be messy.
And certainly deliverance ministry is dangerous.
Many of you people have that view that deliverance ministry is, is really a dangerous thing.
And that, um, we need to be wise and careful about that.
And so, you know, I think back, I believe a lot of because there's so little teaching
about deliverance ministry and the truth that many people get their theology of demons quite
frankly, from movies or books.
Right.
We've seen enough of them.
Yeah.
You know what you mean.
You've seen the movies.
When I was young, I went to the original exorcist and that scared me and I never should've done
that.
I was not a believer.
I didn't know anything about Christ.
I had no interest, but I went to that movie and I was, you know, that scared me.
I really did it just like, and you know, you look at that and all the things that happen
in that movie and yeah, that's those Lee's even that movie then was going to say a classic,
but that was a four runner and pretty ashamed even to a lot of the fear based movies that
are open.
How, which I don't go to.
And we don't encourage people to go to when we close our eyes in the movie theater with
the trainers come.
Yeah, exactly.
No, close your eyes and plug our ears in deliverance ministry.
I don't believe with fear.
We should not, you know, guys not given us a spirit of fear.
We should not be afraid of the demonic realm, but we need to be wise.
And um, you know, they're looking for an open, open our fear gates open for things.
They want us to be fearful.
So, um, that's, you know, that certainly Kim, um, you know, make these devils bigger than
they seem to be.
We should not be afraid, um, you know, but, but we need, we do need to be wise in First
Timothy Five, 22 is a real good scripture.
I think that it has wide application.
It says that we, it says be wise and not be quick to lay hands on people.
And I think that's an interesting scripture.
It, you know, we're just um, you know, we just need to be careful and that's part of
the things we use.
We don't, we're not quick to lay hands on people.
People come in sometimes and the first thing they want to do is, well, let's just pray
delimited, kick these devils out.
It's like, no, we want to prepare you.
We want you to be prepared to do their homework, be prepared to stay free.
So we don't normally pray dilemmas for people till the fourth session.
And so part of that is when people want to, spirits are going to see what they're going
to try to come back to the house, right?
Yeah.
So we want to make sure they're buttoned up tight and have taken care of all the legal
rights for the spirits to be there before we actually do pray for them.
And you know, a lot of times while you'll see people will not follow through on a lot
of that stuff and the ones that were not to be quick to lay hands on him don't come in
for that fourth session.
So you know, we've, we're only walk hi faith that God is watching over us and protecting
us and this is our sphere of influence and W and we are blessed to be able to be part
of it.
So
exactly, and I think it, you know, most people are afraid of things that they don't understand
in general.
Well, if you believe what the word says, that we have power and authority over the demonic
realm.
And many times people are fearful as we said because they, they don't understand, they
don't have troops.
They watched the movies or read some books and it's like, yeah, you know, I can see why
you're afraid if you believe that stuff.
But unfortunately, you know, there's a warning in scripture, Hosea [inaudible] is God's people
perish for lack of knowledge.
And I think that's true.
Sometimes people get taken out and, and, and we should not be afraid.
It, it does not have to be, um, you know, it, it's, it's, it's really like, it's another
ministry.
It's, you know, some, you know, there's a scripture that says in, in, um, in first timothy
that talks about that all who minister and, and, um, seek to advance the Kingdom of God
will be targeted as any help.
Anyone who is a teacher is, you know, be careful.
You know, you're, you're, you're, you're held to a higher state where you're held to a higher
standard and, and so on.
And Judge Mark, you know, I'm not sure the exact phrasing, but it's teaching ministry,
whether you're teacher, they're all works of.
They're all work, so the Kingdom of God.
And so I think the demonic kingdom, people from while you're doing the works of ministry,
you're going to have a target on your back.
But isn't that true of any of any kind of ministry?
It doesn't.
It does not have to be.
You know,
that's when you go into deliverance lightly.
I don't think you jump in without having some good teaching in some time in the trenches,
maybe under an apostolic headship of a deliverance ministry.
You want to be, I'm going to be in alignment with that.
You just don't run out and jump in without knowledge or you know, and again, quickly
and some people, like if you're working in a church and you're on the front line, on
the, on the prayer team up at the altar you don't want and you're not that familiar with
it.
You don't have to be quick to be cast in spirits out there either.
I mean, you know, so you just, you just want to be trained.
You want to move in, move in your mood, been right timing with this sort of thing.
So.
Exactly.
So it doesn't.
It does not have to be dangerous.
Once again, roots.
It doesn't have to be messy and it's just.
It's just one of the ministries of preaching, healing and deliverance, deliverance.
I'm in so many other things that are out there, whether it's evangelism teaching, it's actually
the.
The, the scripture I was thinking about was actually James Street one where it says that
not many should be presumed to be teachers because they will be judged more strictly
higher accountability and not be cavalier about it.
So when the alarm and ministries are in that realm of teaching, you're teaching, you're
ministering to people, you're training them about bumper year, where accountability, accountability
is important, but it's not inherently.
It doesn't have to be dangerous, right?
You have power and authority and we don't operate in fear because we've not been given
a spirit of fear, but of power and of love and a sound mind.
Actually, I think, you know, because of what we do, we're blessed.
I see multiply blessings, you know, and I pray that when we get done, yes we are multiplied
and increase in full of greater joy.
Exactly, exactly right.
The fifth myth that we would like to address is that only scope special people I eat, pastors
or priests should be doing deliverance.
That it's only for certain.
So I'm like, oh, OK, so what's your response?
What do you when somebody, you know, w, how do we respond to that?
They should be doing it.
Well, I think in a deliverance is for those that are called, if you're, if, if you have
a heart and that's a passion that's been laid on your heart and it's something that God
leads you in, then you follow his lead and you, you get the right training and you do
it.
I don't, I don't, I don't believe that he said ever.
Only certain people, I mean he called some of the most unlikely to confound the wise
and I would say that would be me because of my choices in life prior to deliverance where
we're probably not that good and he uses the ones that are the most, well actually the
least likely.
So if you feel a little less than equipped for this, but God's calling you to it, you
know, you probably walking in the right way.
Well, I think that's it.
I mean, it's not, not everybody's called every ministry I believe.
I believe we're all called to pray for the sick and says, you know, lay hands on sick
people, but some people progress and advance and have them in ministry and healing.
And so it is in the realm of deliverance that, um, it does take preparation and to do it
effectively.
I know I got interested in it and years ago, just by praying, um, in the healing of my
wife and I were in the healing ministry at our church, we are the group that worked for
him.
I have to pray for people for healing, bleed to death.
And God honored that and you know, we saw some fruit from that certainly, and then I
got exposed to deliverance ministry and this seemed like a logical progression because
healing and deliverance, there's a linkage there in terms of helping people.
And then after that the next progression was into well counseling and I got in.
So the, you know, the kind of built together, they don't be an interim who literally in
full-time Christian counseling.
And so it's, it's that similar type of thing that if you have a desire and a call to it,
then you want to be good at it.
You can, whether it's bleeding worshiper or preaching or teaching or whatever it is you
want to you, like you said, issues, training and preparation to being under proper authority.
I think that's important.
We're big fans of not being a lone ranger, no.
Lone Rangers under some sort of a church covering or ministry covering.
I mean we're under a ministry covering.
We ministry should be done in a church environment or a ministry environment, so.
But it doesn't have to be special people.
It's the, it's the power of God in us that makes us special.
We've been given power and authority over it.
It's and, and quite frankly on a lot of pastors and you know, don't have the time and they've
got too many other things to do.
That's why having a team are trained in the people and that's part of the call we have
among other things to do it is to train and teach people how to do it because it isn't
necessary and you don't have to be quote special.
You don't have to have a degree, you know, it has to be an ordained minister.
I don't believe you can.
It's just like anything.
You want it, you want to be effective and so it's not just for the hired man of God.
I have a huge team of people that walk with us that, that, that helped us in deliverance
ministry and they don't, they're not necessarily all ordained or degreed.
They're people who have a heart to see people set free for that.
Exactly.
Exactly.
It's an important ministry.
It is for today.
Many people see it as kind of spooky because they don't understand it.
Some are some of the things they've already seen it with a lot of drama and so I just
believe it, you know, it's just one of those ministries.
If you have a calling for it, God will confirm it and you've got it.
You want to get yourself in a position where you can start to move in it.
So I think that's.
That will, you know, as people explore that, they'll see some of the myths out there that
we might have believed before.
Just are true, not true.
I think the takeaway on this would be it is for now.
It doesn't have to be crazy and I always say this, that God wants his children Freema probably
more than they want to be free.
He is the one who does the delivering and so you know, it's hard to discount something
that God's put in place over and over and over again and in his word, and we're here
to just bring that, that peace to the body of Christ.
Do you remember what we hope you've enjoyed this podcast?
On five common myths about deliverance ministry, Please, um, we'd love to hear from you.
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Right.
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