- Hey everybody, what's up?
Welcome to another episode of the Chase Jarvis
Live show here on Creative Live.
You know this show.
This is where I bring on awesome humans,
sit down, and share their career
arcs or stories with the goal of helping
you live your dreams.
And today is a doozy of an episode
because we're going all the way to the NBA.
My guest is a two-time Olympian,
a three-time NBA All-Star.
His name is Detlef Schrempf.
And I'm happy to have you here on the show, bud.
(upbeat music)
(applause)
They love you!
- Thanks, Chase, appreciate it.
- Thank you so much for being here.
So what was the show?
You were on a show, not Family Ties but-
- Oh, Park and Rec.
- Park and Rec, good start.
(laughing)
So I wanna tell you a funny story,
and I'm gonna ask you about this.
So we have a lot of ground to cover
when I talk about peak performance, Olympics,
NBA All-Star, transitioning out of that
into another career what it's like to be rich and famous
and how you stay humble and hardworking.
We're gonna cover a lot of ground.
But I wanna start off with a funny story.
Which is you were at my birthday party
a couple of weeks ago.
You met my partner Mack.
I was texting him, hey, I gotta get back
to Seattle because I got a couple of shows
to film tomorrow.
He's like, who are you filming?
And I said I'm filming with Detlef.
And he's like, I'm watching Parks and Rec right now
as a rerun and you were on the screen.
So how does an NBA All-Star,
retired NBA All-Star end up on Parks and Rec?
- Well, first I thought they went after me
because I had some talent,
but that was not the case.
As you might know, the show plays in Pawnee, Indiana.
- Yes.
- And I played in Indiana for almost five years.
- With the Pacers?
- Well, the Indiana Pacers, yes, correct.
And they basically had their first season
and they had some difficulties signing on
for the next season.
So their last episode was a telethon.
And one of their writers thought wouldn't it be great
to get an athlete in there, an Indiana Pacer
or a Colt or whatever that does charitable stuff,
and then we can promote that.
So I think they literally just searched
for former Pacer that does charitable stuff,
found my phone number, and sent us an email
to our foundation office.
And they go, they want you on a TV show.
And I go for what?
And they literally had me just come in
and give them a check.
They were doing a telethon.
I can't remember what it was for.
But I would give then a check; hey, I'm donating.
And so I told them I'd do it,
but the check would have to be really large.
- Because I'm six foot, ten we need an appropriate-
- Amy Poehler would have to say Detlef Schrempf Foundation.
So maybe we could benefit from it, right.
And so yeah, go to LA to film this
and thought I just literally would be presenting a check.
And they kept writing me into more scenes.
So it was really odd,
because I had, first, no words.
And then I had to learn stuff.
And then I was doing different stuff.
And then the next three years
they kept bringing me back for the final episodes.
And then I thought maybe I had something going on,
but it didn't work out that way.
- Well, there's so many things I think,
that they thought of you, it's not an accident.
This is not just someone with a heartbeat and a foundation.
You have reputation of just being a star
on so many different qualities.
And one of the things that I feel like is,
I don't know if it's absent,
but there's a humility that you brought to the game
which I find the audience that listens and watches the show
is largely creators and entrepreneurs,
but we try and have top performers on from all disciplines.
I think there's a lot of lessons to be learned from that.
I just wanna circle back one more time
on the Parks and Rec.
I find it interesting that I know about that,
and Mack, my partner, we're in our 40s.
And Mack's kids are also like,
wait, you gotta picture with Detlef Schrempf?
Because they know that show.
So you've done a nice job of transcending pop culture
for what it's worth.
And ending there.
So German born?
- Yeah.
- Back when it was West Germany?
- Right.
- So what was it like to grow up in that dynamic
and how did you find sport?
Was that an outlet for you?
And just give us a little bit of back story
on your childhood and how you found your way
into basketball besides from being naturally a tall human.
- Yeah, well that happened late in life actually,
late in my years because I was a total late bloomer.
I grew up like most German boys did, played soccer.
As soon as you can walk you start kicking a ball around.
So you join the local, the nearest
football club because you don't really play it in schools.
It's all through clubs.
And that's how I grew up.
And I was always the kid that I thought didn't quite fit in.
I was very skinny, late bloomer, bleached blond.
Got to 11, 12 years old and those guys
that already have a mustache and I'm the skinny kid.
And by accident actually I fell into basketball.
I changed schools because I wanted to get
into teaching sports basically.
I wanted to pursue that avenue.
And the school I was at didn't have it,
so I changed schools, which was a few miles further away.
And they had a PE teacher who went to UCLA
and played basketball with Bill Walton.
So he introduced me to basketball in the school
and even though I was not very good,
I enjoyed it because it was a different challenge.
- Yeah.
- And then within basically three years
I was one of the best players in Germany in my age group.
And I always tell people when you're at that level
not just in sports, but in business, too,
you're not normal; you're not.
- Yeah.
- Because the things you do, normal people don't do.
So you either look at yourself and don't like yourself
or you embrace it.
And I totally embraced it.
I lived basketball 24-7.
I practiced and played for three different teams,
three different age groups.
As a 14-year-old I played on a man's league.
I didn't have a social life, that was it.
And it worked out.
- I think that's fascinating that there is an all-in
and recognizing that if you have so much passion
for something, A, it's okay to lean into that passion
and, B, what you're gravitating towards is your tribe.
These are your people, and you wanna
be around basketball and the sport.
And you can play that year-round,
and the same is true if you're a photographer,
a designer, you wanna build a business.
I think there's culturally,
I feel like there resistance.
So did you feel like,
well, you said you're not normal.
- Yeah.
- So that's where the word and the concept
of resistance comes in.
You're like, oh gosh, none of my friends are
this into basketball.
Or none of my friends wanna start businesses
or go off and be a creator or an entrepreneur.
So did you feel like you had to reconcile
with that at all or were you confident enough?
Just talk to me about was there any conflict
or was it just natural for you?
- Well, I think it was a process.
Because I think as a teenager,
we all wanna be accepted.
And I struggled for that for a long time.
Because I was okay at soccer,
but I wasn't part of the core group.
I was kinda the outsider.
School, I was an okay student but I wasn't here or there.
Socially I was getting in trouble doing stuff
and hanging out and skipping school and things like that.
But I wasn't part of the core group.
I was kinda the hang on.
- Yeah.
- So basketball was the first time where I had success.
All of a sudden people are looking at me going,
wow, he's pretty good.
And I think with that, when you're good at something
and you are recognized for it
and people acknowledge it,
all of a sudden your confidence level goes up.
- Yeah.
- And that's another discussion
because then you can go a little bit over the top
where confidence turns into arrogance.
And pro athletes have a tendency to go there.
(laughing)
So for me that was very important
because I was searching for something for a long time.
And then basketball came along,
and I'm good, you know.
And so it just went from there.
- So let's talk about the confidence going into arrogance.
I think you did a nice job of realizing
when you're good at something,
whether you're good or you love something,
I think in both those situations,
I'm gonna put a little few words in your mouth here,
just like lean into the thing that you love
or that you're good at.
- Yeah.
- These concentric or rather overlapping circles
like what you're talented at, what you love,
and what you feel like you can make a living
and a life doing or at least pursue
until something else comes along.
But if we change the conversation
to what you just alluded to
and you go back to my opening point,
I can't even remember how long we've been friends.
We'll try and get back to that story in a second.
But the humility with which you
even approach the story of Parks and Rec,
it's like your humility is obvious.
The foundation that you have in your name
is an incredible foundation.
And I know you as an entrepreneur and a business person now.
Is that humility something that was born into you,
bred into you or built or did you learn the hard way
and have to realize that you weren't all that
and that we're all just putting our pants on the same way?
What was your personal arc,
and then just talk about confidence and arrogance
in pro sports or superstars in general.
- Yeah, it's complex.
Well, I think first of all I have to give my parents credit
to some degree, especially my mom
for keeping me in line.
And I got stepped on more than I stepped on early on,
so I was never one that was very confident
until I succeeded in basketball.
And definitely my early years of success
I was a typical athlete because I think we go
through stages in life.
You start out as me, myself, and I, right.
And as a teenager it's all about me.
I want more; I want this; I complain about that.
And continues and for pro athletes
I think that stage sometimes goes a little longer.
Because we want more.
We're always asking for more playing time, more money,
more exposure, more of a contract,
more marketing deals.
Why am I not featured?
Because we're bred to succeed.
- And to compete.
- Yeah, you wanna compete and I wanna be known for it.
And it goes back to I wanna be acknowledged.
- Yeah, it's interesting how those things as an adult,
they're the same things we want as a seventh grader.
- Exactly, yeah, you wanna have that pat on the back.
And I think for most people that wanna be successful.
And I don't know where it changed for me.
I tell the young guys all the time
remember the first few years and you're sitting
in a room and you meet the CEO of a company
or some executive or some billionaire.
And it would literally be like, yeah, Chase,
nice to meet you.
I turn around and I've already forgotten your name.
Because I didn't care; I had shutters on.
It was about myself and the game.
I was like whatever.
And so I say, guys, you're gonna have opportunities
to meet people that will build relationships
that will help you throughout your life.
And I don't know where it changed for me.
I think once you get married, have kids,
other things become more important.
- Yeah.
- But it was a slow process.
- Perspective, right.
- Yeah, exactly.
It's not just about the game and yourself.
And then we found out early on
that our youngest had some special needs.
So your life changes because you try
and figure out how to navigate around that
and what are the best avenues and services
and all of that.
And there you are again.
And then you kind of get to the point
where you retire from basketball
and you have to make a decision.
Because life changes.
And people don't understand that never really performed
in front of people.
You can never duplicate those moments.
Say you make a winning shot or you miss a winning shot
in front of 20,000 people and millions on TV.
It's a playoff game and he might get knocked out
or you advance.
The emotional roller coaster, the adrenaline,
the high and the low, you just can't duplicate.
And so a lot of guys struggle with that.
- Yeah, when you leave that,
both the figurative and the literal arena.
You're in the arena-
- And it's over.
And so where do you get that?
And if you still search for that you run into some issues.
Especially when you still think of yourself so highly.
(laughing)
So I don't know, I think I was always surrounded
with good friends and good neighbors
that helped me along the process.
But it was the, dude, you just played basketball.
What else do you do?
You look good on TV,
and 20 years from now nobody will remember.
- That you looked good on TV 20 years ago.
- Exactly.
- So I think I'm gonna extract some of those things
and what I heard is like friends and neighbors
and mentors and I'm gonna put the word community out there.
So how important, even as a professional athlete
when you're wildly catered to and you have agents
and trainers and all of the infrastructure is there
to take care of you and make sure you succeed,
how important was community as an elite athlete?
- Well, all of it is important I think.
I miss the trainers especially.
When you get older.
I played soccer and I'd kick the ball
and I think I pulled my quad.
I'm going, what the heck?
So back then that'd be a week.
Because you get treatment three times a day.
You get a massage; you get ice; your ultrasounding.
I'm ready to go.
It's been a month now.
- Still gimping around.
- Yeah, I miss that, but such is life.
I think I was fortunate.
I was fortunate.
We live in, as you know, Seattle.
We live in an incredible community
that is to me, one, is very giving,
very embracing to a certain point.
And if you pick the right community
with the right neighbors, the right families,
it's quite amazing.
And I was fortunate.
We had great neighbors.
All our kids grew up together.
We barbecue; we go to the club, to the pool,
hang out with the kids.
We're sitting on bleachers every weekend
for our sporting events.
And you're sitting with executives,
tech guys, with real estate guys.
And you always talk about stuff.
And I think that helped my process
of trying to figure out what I do after basketball.
So let's go back into basketball.
How much is team sport versus snowboarding
or any other numerous sports we could name
that are more individual.
But how much of a community was your team?
How important was team building, was comradery,
were partners in what you were doing
as an elite athlete?
How important was that
or did you still think of it
because of the ego and the requirement
to be mindset is so critical as a professional athlete?
Talk to me about the balance of those two things.
How important was the team
or was it all about the individual
and what's the balance there?
- Well, I think you still have to do your individual
things to get ready for what you need
to do as a player, so that means summer programs.
You're lifting weights; you're working out.
You're doing sprints; you're running stairs.
All those things physically and mentally too
that you have to get yourself ready for the season.
But then once that starts or prior to it
when you actually play and practice as a team,
I've been on some pretty good teams.
But I've also been on some very mediocre teams.
And it's pretty easy to tell the teams
that work together, succeed,
and the teams that have talent but do not succeed.
- What are the characteristics of either?
What does it feel like to be on?
- One, everyone has to be extremely competitive.
But you're also willing to compromise.
And so you have to have a good mix of stars
and role players that are willing to compromise
and maybe some stars that are willing
to take a step back.
If you don't have that, people are just going
to be competing against each other to get more points
or shoot the ball more or get more attention.
And it kinda starts from the top down.
If you have good leadership, ownership,
general manager, coaches, it filters down to the players.
And if you have some veterans that take the lead,
it really helps.
- Well, let's go back to the individual part of that.
Because I think most people when you throw that question
at them it's sort of about team.
I like that you peppered in there that you have
almost a responsibility, an obligation
to take care of yourself, to be mentally strong,
to be a team player.
And you talked about the preparation.
How important was the preparation stuff,
the mindset and all the training that you did?
Again, for the folks at home,
this is largely people who are deciding
to build businesses and create,
and what I try and advocate is
that you play a role in the community.
And if you're a photographer,
it's your job to help grow and establish
and have relationships and help
the photography community, the design community,
the entrepreneurship community.
But if you wake up everyday,
you're gonna have to take care of yourself.
You wake up everyday and you're individually
not sound and fit, then it's hard
to be a good member of a community.
Talk to me about did you feel like it was the same way
in pro sports; is it something we can compare?
- Yes, to a certain degree.
Because I think some of it is more physical.
And nowadays I think you get more services around it.
There's a big mental approach.
There's actually more planning
about the physical aspect too.
Back then I just went into the gym every day
and I tried to practice harder than the day before.
Anyway, now it's pretty much proven that's
not the way to go.
Eventually you're gonna crash and burn out.
But there wasn't much mental.
I think one thing that really helped me early on
in my career was that I actually ran into a life coach
who gave me some guidelines and some direction,
which helped me tremendously.
But that was unheard of back then.
But I think for most of us,
and thinking back when I played,
not many of us did it, but we prepared ourselves
whatever way we thought was right.
And then we came together
and started the process as a team.
Later on in my years we had more
of a summer workout program together.
You can go in early with a team
and there be a trainer and strength coach
and everyone working with you, once the NBA grew to that.
But before, you were on your own.
Now how do you pass that on?
How do you give it back?
For me it was doing basketball camps
through the foundation,
not just in the US, but we did some all over the world
trying to spread the word of, hey, this is how
we grow together, this is what we give back.
Was it very well organized
as far as thinking and how to start that process,
I think we just stumbled into it and grew from there.
- Yeah.
- But that was a long time ago.
(laughing)
- If you're listening to the podcast
you're looking at a tan, super-fit, specimen here
and he talks about being retired.
And you shrank from 6'10" to 6'9"?
- Yes, the clothes fit better.
(laughing)
- More stuff I can wear now.
So let's talk a little bit about,
part of what this show's about
is about putting on display the habits
and the mentality of peak performers.
You've played in two Olympics
and you've been an NBA All-Star three times.
In the era of Jordan's prime, doing the Sonics,
we're super hyped yourself and Shawn Kemp
and Gary Payton, it was a really, really cool team to watch.
It was an important, interesting trajectory
for the NBA at that time.
I know less about your Olympic stuff.
But give me some characteristics.
I think you've done a nice job of downplaying.
There wasn't a lot there for us.
But it doesn't just happen.
You don't just stumble into being a two-time Olympian
and three-time All-Star.
So what are some of the characteristics,
again, and I'm sort of modeling for the folks at home,
was it secret sauce? Was it just hard work?
Was it a combination of all of these things?
Just tell me a little bit of the story.
These things don't just happen on accident.
And I know you're so damn humble.
We need to hear the real-
- When I was on the path up I was not nice.
I think to a certain degree you have to have an edge to you.
And you've gotta find what drives you.
And I think what drove me was insecurity
of, one, not fitting in, not making it,
not staying there.
Every year I thought somebody was gonna come in
and take my job.
And true or not, it's what drove me.
So I was not normal, and I've heard that many times.
Nobody does that.
And I took pride in it because even in college
they tried to ban me from the gyms
because I was playing all over the city
during basketball season and different times.
Day offer game or something.
And probably not good.
But it was that whatever drove me.
One, I loved to play, and two,
I've had this insecurity that if I don't put in more work
than everybody else, somebody would take my job.
- Yeah, I think that's actually a characteristic
of having sat down with hundreds of people on the show,
the drive and the unwillingness to be comfortable
with your position in life, either out of fear or love.
That's a really common trait.
So I think, A, you have validated that.
I wanna go back to other people telling you
that you are weird or that you didn't fit in
or that you're different.
Misunderstood, I call on Bezos' quote
because he's just a couple blocks away here.
And that is to be successful,
you have to be willing to be misunderstood
for long periods of time.
And so can you give us a little more depth or color
around when people would tell you
that you'd be different and how did that,
you said for a second there it was a point of pride for you.
So talk about that and then in what ways specifically
would you feel like you were different than your peers
and did you see that as a weakness or a strength
and just talk about that.
- I acknowledged it as being different maybe
and not fitting in well to a certain degree.
But it helped me be successful in what I needed to do.
So whether it was,
I was one of the first,
when I got drafted in Dallas
the team didn't even have a weight room.
Think about that.
- Wow!
- Yeah, and I came from the University of Washington
and we had a weight program.
And I was pretty advanced.
I worked with a strength coach there
because I was so skinny coming out of high school.
- You had to put some meat on these bones.
- Yeah, so I was in the weight room all the time.
So I get drafted by a team, a professional team,
that pays you money that didn't have a weight room.
So I would go to the North Dallas Athletic Club,
which is like a mile away every day after practice
and lift weights.
And word got around town, this dude is weird.
Why is he lifting weights?
Basketball players don't need to lift weights.
So I heard it from that or I heard it from teammates
or even summertime I'd get a couple guys
to work out with me and a lot of times I wear them out.
Because it was just me, another this, another game,
another this.
And there was always competitive.
My wife said, "You didn't have much of a light bone in you."
And I was just very competitive.
- Do you think that that's ultimately
was a differentiator for you, a path to success?
- Well, I think you gotta find whatever helps you succeed
and whatever you want to accomplish.
And I didn't offend people.
I wasn't mean to them.
I just was on my own on that path.
And sometimes people came, but then they couldn't hang
or whatever you wanna call it.
They would kinda get tired of me
because we're going again tomorrow.
It's Sunday; what else are you gonna do, right?
I got better at it later on in life
but at the time it helped me be successful.
- So what about did you find that
for every person who's been on Creative Live before,
someone I admire and respect, an artist named James Victory.
James says what made you weird and quirky as a kid
is your biggest strength as a grown up.
And if you can find a way to lean in to that.
And it sounds like there's a pattern of acknowledging
that you were different and that you needed to out-work,
out-play, and either through, again, love of the game
or fear of being replaced,
you were willing to work really hard.
Were there people that you felt like
clearly you were an outlier in your level of work ethic.
But were there people for whom didn't work
and were just naturally talented,
and what did the career arc of those people look like
or behind the scenes?
Because you know Michael Jordan.
Did he have that same sort of fever
and desire to train and is that a characteristic,
hard work, or are there just a cross-section of people
who are lazy and don't care in the NBA
or on your Olympic team for your previous Olympics?
- Well, I struggled with that earlier.
When I was younger and guys would come every year
and they would have a lot of talent
or guys I played with for years
that had a lot of talent but they just got by
with what they had.
Because I always said, man, you never know
how good you can be.
And they go, "I'm pretty good."
And for them it worked.
And for others who found their spot
and didn't really want more.
So I struggled with that
almost to the point of I didn't really respect the guys.
And later on I go, everyone their own.
Because he's doing what he's comfortable doing
and he's happy where he is.
And I was like, man, you could be All-Star every year
but you never will be because you're not willing
to take that extra step.
And then others who didn't wanna take that other step.
Because not everybody wants to take that last shot
or play in the last two minutes of a game
or have that responsibility of having to perform
every night because now you're an All-Star,
you gotta average this and do this and that.
So it took me a while
to not forgive, more like, hey,
you are who you are and you do your thing,
I'll do my thing.
- Yeah, but self-awareness is a very powerful thing.
And knowing that that was maybe your advantage.
I like to say don't just be better, be different.
And it sound like at some point maybe this is just maturing.
You get comfortable with who you are.
Was that an active process for you
or did you feel like you just settled into who you were?
- No, like I said, it's a process.
It didn't happen overnight
and it took input from a lot of people,
friends and neighbors and people keeping you humble
and telling you that's stupid.
My wife did a really good job with that.
(laughing)
- They have a way.
- Yeah, but it was a slow process.
I was German stubborn as can be.
I had to run into a wall a few times to figure it out.
- You look good for running into a wall a couple of times.
(laughing)
So I want a small transition.
Actually maybe put a pin there for a second
and go back before we transition.
I was on a flight on Tuesday.
In the seat back is game six,
Seattle versus Chicago of the NBA finals.
- Sad, we lost.
(laughing)
- You're going to the punchline.
What's it like to, as you said,
to take game-winning shots or game-losing shots
to be at the pinnacle of a game,
and as I mentioned earlier
you and Shawn Kemp and Gary Payton
playing against Scottie Pippen and Michael Jordan?
Is there a nostalgic place that now you look back on that?
What's it like to play at that level?
Because there's a lot of people I think at home
that wherever they are in their career
or their pursuit of their passion,
I think there's always a is it as good as it looks
from where I'm sitting in the bleachers?
I try and say it's just harder than you think it is.
But shape the way that you think about
you playing in game six of the NBA finals as an All-Star.
That's the apex of the game.
That's the equivalent of the World Cup.
- Oh, totally.
To me, first of all, if I wasn't as old as I am now-
- He's talking like he's 200 years old.
- No, no, but you go through life and you do check marks.
Like basketball, orthopedic surgeons always told me
you shouldn't play basketball after 40.
I played until a couple of years ago.
Maybe a little pickup ball here and there.
But you do a check mark, can't play anymore.
It's not good for the body.
- Doesn't work, yeah.
- But if I could I'd play it every day.
It's a fantastic sport; I love it.
I love how it's different
every time you step on a court,
how competitive it can be.
Every move down the court is different.
So from that standpoint
I would've been playing basketball anyways.
But then you take it where all of a sudden
you get to the status where you're acknowledged.
You become famous to a certain degree.
And you have a status in the community
that you can use for other things.
- For good or evil.
- Yeah, at least people respect you for something.
What you do with it is your call.
But playing games like that and going
through a season like that,
we were good for five good years.
- Yeah, it was amazing.
- And then we get to the finals and we didn't win it
and we're thinking, man, we're gonna be back next year
because we're that good.
We were that good on the West Coast.
Chicago was that good on the East Coast.
- Yeah.
- And within a year the team gets dismantled
and we'll never go back.
So it changes that quickly.
But to play at that level every day,
emotional roller coaster.
To me it's like you can only really experience the highs
when you've also felt the lows.
And we had some lows.
We lost in the first round a couple years before.
And we had a great season.
And so there are those things I look back on
and I look at practices backward.
Gary and I always fought.
Gary was the typical,
he worked hard when he wanted to.
But certain things he didn't do.
And so we were always at each other.
Now we talk all the time.
- Still in the community.
- But I look back at those days that were pretty special.
When you're going through it you don't,
you're still that guy, oh man, the food sucks today.
Why is the plane leaving so early?
You complain; it's human nature.
But it's quite the life.
- I promised to switch gears, so we're gonna switch gears.
You talked about being retired
and one of the things that I have come to know,
and I consistently draw a lot of parallels
between elite athletes and entrepreneurs
or people who are building businesses.
Mark Cuban, who's been on the show,
talks about business is harder than sport
because it's 24-7.
There's not rest; there's no off season.
At midnight your customers in a lot of online businesses
or whatever, they're still buying your stuff or not.
And so business is the ultimate sport
I think is how he says it.
But for all the parallels that I draw,
one thing that stands out to me
is that there are people who are good with planning
for their future and there are people
who are not so good at it.
And I'm curious, I know you in a professional capacity now.
You take care of people
and their portfolio planning, their longevity,
and you basically create a life for them with their money,
like retirement or whatever.
Specifically I know that pro athletes are notoriously
horrible at that.
And you've heard the moniker starving artist
or that artists are really bad with money.
So again, I'm drawing this parallel.
Talk to me about what you see in a post-basketball world
or as people or artists are thinking about
we're notoriously bad with money
and they'll laugh that off.
But it actually can be a huge advantage
if you decide to put in some time
and plan for having insurance for your family
or whatever as a creator,
and it's not dissimilar to what you're doing now.
So talk to me about the horror stories
and how it can be.
- Well, I think that first you need
to take a step back and put yourself
into the position you're 19, 20 years old.
That's literally the average age of an NBA player
coming into the league.
- That's crazy.
- Have you gone to college?
Maybe a year.
- Yeah.
- So the majority of the guys come out early
so they don't really go to college for four years.
They don't finish college.
And as you know, a lot of them come
from difficult situations at home.
Often single parent homes.
So if I come out at 20 with limited,
two years in college maybe,
they've given me a four-year guaranteed
for first round pick I think the minimum is
four years guaranteed, 12 million.
I would've gone nuts.
I would've bought a Ferrari.
Why not?
(laughing)
So the maturity level is one thing.
And, again, we're talking the average.
We're not talking Kevin Durant or Steph Curry.
We're talking the average guy that's coming out
what they're gonna do.
And just like entertainers,
as soon as you have some notoriety
and you're in the news,
all of a sudden everybody flocks to you.
So you not just have an agent.
You're paying for a marketing guy.
Somebody probably says you've gotta start a foundation,
so you're gonna hire a family member to run a foundation
and pay them 100 or 200 grand a year.
All the cousins are coming out.
You have this whole entourage all of a sudden.
And a lot of guys feel obligated
that they have to take care of them.
And there's always this feel about
well, when I get the big contract,
my next contract.
Again, 50% of those guys will not get that next contract.
So they are where they are
and they're gonna be pretty much broke after four years.
That's so sad.
- Yeah.
- The NBA does actually a really good job,
the NFL, all the professional leagues,
at educating the guys and bringing services to them.
They have to go through it when they're rookies.
But after that it's not mandatory.
So it's tough.
The good guys that make it happen,
they have good partners.
They find a good agent.
I always say, hey, your agent is an agent.
He didn't go to school to manage your money.
So separate your agent from your money.
And then hire a registered investment advisor.
You look it up on the website.
Look it up; make sure they're clean.
- Yeah.
- And they have a fiduciary duty to do what's right for you.
If you do that and live somewhat within your means.
I get $4 million, I'm not making $4 million.
I might make $2 million, take 2 million home,
but come up with a number you put away every year
and then go from there.
But it's a slow process.
Guys are getting better.
Also salaries are getting much bigger.
It's unfortunate, a lot of guys that I played with
are not doing well financially.
And then you run into health issues
because most guys that age have health issues
they can't pay for it.
And run into a bunch of guys
in the last three, four years died
that I played with or played against.
50, 55 years old, and it's sad.
- Wow! That's shocking, 50.
Again, you said you're not normal.
You put your body under that much duress for that long,
I think there's all kinds of warning signs there.
I wanna go back to this parallel.
Because again, the primary audience is people
who are interested in elite performers
so that they can take some of the lessons
and apply it to their own lives.
Whether that's creators, artists,
entrepreneurs, athletes, whatever.
And when folks at home are like,
oh, I don't need to plan for my future
because that's for everybody else.
And I watch this consistently.
What I ended up being, as you have
achieved a bunch of success as a professional,
maybe I did that as a photographer
and you look to your left and to your right
and there's a lot of folks who are
the way I say is they're not willing
to fork over these core foundations,
things like medical insurance,
things like planning for their family,
planning retirement.
And I'm also a big advocate
of investing in your own future.
If you don't believe in you, who will?
So you have to continue to make bigger bets
on your own success.
But is there a balance?
Is there a balance where you can both
invest in your future, do the things that you need to do
like presumably having a marketing person
and having a good agent and those things cost money.
And you have to know to what threshold
do you invest in and how much do you put away?
Because you put all your money away,
then you're not maximizing the opportunity
that you have in front of you.
And just talk to me.
That seems like a spectrum
in whether you're pro athlete
or whether you're an aspiring entrepreneur
how much am I investing in myself and my business
and how much am I putting away for a rainy day?
- That's a good question.
I think that's why you come up with custom approach
to every unique situation.
Because yours is different than mine.
From not just your business, but your income,
your family situation, what are your goals,
all of those things.
You come up and basically build a financial plan
looking at that.
But to me, you try to take the what ifs out.
And for the athletes it's typically
well, what if I get hurt tomorrow?
My contract is up next year and I can never play again.
Most guys don't wanna talk about that.
It's like what if I die tomorrow.
It's just as bad.
But it could happen.
- Yeah.
- So if it's not for you,
but you have a wife and you have kids,
why would you not at least try to plan ahead for them?
But I think with guys it's just you get so busy.
You have to put shutters on.
I gotta finish this project.
I gotta take this company here.
I gotta get my new contract.
I gotta become an All-Star and then I'm gonna do it.
Before you know it,
I talked to coaches, I've coached for 25 years.
And they go, I'm thinking about retirement
in a couple of years.
Have you ever looked at it before?
No, what I got; where's my money?
And they're smart people.
- That's why I'm asking the question.
Because everyone out there thinks
it's not gonna happen to them.
And this sort of planning and rainy day.
And I'm wildly freakishly optimistic.
Like everything's always gonna work out.
But the reality is that there's this sort of planning.
And it really wasn't about maturity or anything.
It was like, you know what, to me there's always,
if you could ever afford to have a long-term view,
you should.
And so what does it look like
to put away some chunk of money
like to pay yourself part of the equation.
Pay yourself first.
- Let me give you an example.
My son, my oldest has got a pretty good job,
not making much money but it's got great benefits.
Matching 401(k) for example.
So I'm talking to him.
You should max out.
They're gonna match what you're putting in there,
and you can really build up a 401(k).
And he goes, "Yeah, maybe next year
"because I think I wanna get this and that."
- Fill in the blank.
- Because those 200 or 300 bucks a month,
for a young person it's a lot of money.
The only thing you can really,
to a certain degree control is how much money you spend.
- For sure.
Do you live within your means or not?
- And it's really hard for people
in the limelight to control that
because of expectations.
NBA player can't pull up to practice in a-
now I'm gonna really get somebody mad at me
for pulling out a car that's not worthy.
(laughing)
But he's gotta have a decent car.
And so they feel that pressure.
And even though they might only make a million bucks
that year, NBA minimum salary is now maybe 800,000 a year.
So NBA minimum, he's probably still gonna buy
a $200,000 Mercedes just so he can roll.
And so that sets you back.
You can't put any money away.
So there are certain things that you can control,
and again, it's a process.
I think you have to walk through it.
Once you have a family and kids
what's gonna happen to them if something happens to you?
Will they be able to go to school?
Can they afford college?
All those things.
- And that's why to me it's an important part
for trying to map how you're talking
about with pro athletes onto the independent creators
and people who are largely watching and listening here.
That's a reality that whether it's the fanciest camera
or the sexiest gear or a fancy studio
or a big staff.
I think the most successful people that I know
in the long arc of success,
they have had it really humbly.
There's something very almost very admirable
about keeping it super lean.
And as you said 50 times in this interview,
it's all individual and you need to craft
that story for yourself.
Just to reiterate, it's a really important part
of why do you have to have the $200,000 Mercedes?
And I think by and large if you look at those
they're not actually have-tos.
It's our ego.
- We talk a lot about needs, wants, and wishes.
If we all lived by our needs, we'll do fairly well
regardless of where you are income level.
But most of us are kinda in the wants.
And then a few people are in the wishes.
Even though you don't need that $500 purse,
I'm gonna get it because that's what I want
even though it's gonna max out my credit card.
So at every level it's all relative.
It doesn't have to be a $200,000 Mercedes
because that's for somebody that might make a million.
But it can be that $250 purse that you don't need.
So you gotta look at it, what can that 250 do?
It's an opportunity cost.
Because for most people spending 250, you gotta make 500.
You pay taxes and whatever else.
So that's a lot of money.
Let's talk for just a second about legacy.
I'm gonna put a very simple tagline on that
which is what people think about you
after you have left the limelight,
your legacy, and whether you're Richard Branson
or other people who have been on the show,
there's usually a talk of legacy.
And legacy doesn't have to be
you were wildly rich and famous.
It can be what are you doing,
what's gonna be on your tombstone.
So how important has long-term mission and vision
been for you and what are you,
what's important for you in your legacy?
You've mentioned a few things,
but try and put a bow on it for me.
How important is legacy to you
and how do you think of it?
- Well, again I go through these different stages in life.
And I think early on it was probably
about being successful and being recognized
as an NBA All-Star or star on the basketball court
or whatever else.
And you grow up a little bit.
And to me it's more about, one is hopefully
I'm raising some children that will be productive
in the future.
And I'm not talking about rich.
I'm talking about being a positive influence
in their communities, making a difference.
We've tried to do certain things through our foundation
over the years, but it was more geared
toward not individuals, more groups, charities.
It's all children charities,
but maybe from the pediatric hospital
to maybe homeless shelter for teenagers.
Whatever it is, it was a group of kids.
And for the next transition in life
I hope that we have an influence
on more individuals to have that impact in the future.
Maybe it's some future pro athletes
or student athletes that will have an impact
in our community.
That they take that path,
they learn how to do it,
they form the right partnerships
and along the way help some other individuals
with whatever it is, scholarships or what not.
I don't want it as broad anymore.
Because we have no family.
We have no family.
My family is in Germany.
My wife's family is mostly passed away.
So it's us and our two boys.
So we don't have the 25 people Thanksgiving dinners.
Our boys will be there.
And hopefully they know that we were good people.
But other than that I'm not worried about legacy.
I don't need a trophy somewhere.
I don't have trophies in my house.
I don't have awards.
Unfortunately they're in boxes somewhere.
It's just not who I am.
I wanna enjoy life.
I think for me it's about relationships.
You hopefully build good friendships
and you build relationships with people
that appreciate who you are
and what you do for them and with them.
Other than that, the wind will blow over anyways
somewhere down the road.
- Get a good golf tan.
- Yeah, I'm at the why not stage.
I told you this.
If I can do it, I'm gonna do it.
I wanna enjoy life and at the same time
still have some impact.
It's getting smaller, the world is getting smaller.
We're not spreading out as far as we used to.
- I'm gonna ask you just a series of questions,
basically rapid fire.
Gonna be about you specifically.
- Okay.
- At your peak athletic prowess
did you have a routine, a mental routine,
a morning routine?
What were some of the characteristics
at your athletic peak and what are they now?
- A routine?
- Yeah, like in the morning you never had coffee
or you always had a huge protein breakfast
or you always meditated?
As a peak athlete, did you have some routines?
I know as a financier.
- Not to that degree.
Everyone was a little superstitious.
So saying preparation before a game,
you put your left sock on; you put your right sock on.
(laughing)
Little things like that, yes totally.
But now I can't even tell you which one it was first.
But I had to do it the same way.
- So there's repetition and routine.
- Yeah, and the warm-ups, the same stuff.
I had to take the same shots every game
just to get into that rhythm.
But as far as getting up in the morning
because your schedule is so different every day.
You wake up in a different hotel room
at a different time
with maybe wanna eat oatmeal but they don't have it,
whatever it is.
So you have to be flexible
and you have to be willing to change and adapt.
And I think that has been my whole life,
willing to, actually I look forward to change.
- That's interesting.
- So for me, the daily routines were always different.
Summertime was a little bit more structured
because I knew what I wanted to do to train.
But back in those days I didn't really worry
that much about food.
Now I do; I just ate everything.
Now I go, I can't eat that but it looks so good.
(laughing)
- Let's now fast-forward to your life now.
How important is routine to you?
You mentioned you have two kids, one with special needs.
You're paying attention to your diet.
So what does a routine look like for you now?
- I'm a creature of habit.
I like to do certain things.
I feel much better when I do work out,
whatever it is.
- Do you work out in the morning?
What's a work out look like for you?
- I try to do something in the morning.
So I get up and typically do the same things in the morning.
I have coffee, do emails, set up the day.
Once that's set I go work out.
And then I go to the office and go from there.
- What time do you wake up?
Are you an early riser?
Do you try and get a bunch done before the world is moving?
- I'm usually up by 6:00 at the latest, yeah.
Don't sleep that much.
- What about sleep?
Have you always been an early riser?
Is sleep important to your,
how important is sleep to your career?
- I think it's very important.
I've never been a good sleeper.
So you get it in spurts.
But I'd like to sleep more.
My wife likes to sleep.
She's pretty good at it.
- She's pro?
- Pro All-Star, maybe Olympian.
(laughing)
- Any other routines in your life now
and how do you stay active?
- Like I said earlier, there are check marks.
- Yep.
- I don't play basketball anymore.
I said it's just not worth it.
Last time I did, about a year and a half ago,
I sprained my ankle really bad.
And I go that's three months of not doing anything.
So I don't do that.
I barely run.
- Weights?
- I do weights, mostly core stuff.
Not a lot of heavy weights,
but I just wanna keep core stuff going.
And then I do something aerobic.
So it could be a treadmill.
I like the StairMaster or spinning bikes.
- Yeah.
- I used to ride the road bikes a lot.
But then a bad crash was enough.
Second bad crash, so my wife said
you only have two lives left
so maybe you should quit.
(laughing)
- So you talk about family routine.
Is family routine important to you?
Because you talked about always being dynamic and moving
and that's in part how I see my life as well,
and I think a lot of creators identify with that.
There's things that I like to do every morning.
I try and own my morning.
But I also travel hundreds of thousands of miles a year.
I wake up in a different hotel room
two or three days a week.
I've flown two and a half times a week for 11 years.
- Brutal.
- You do the math on that
and you start not wanting to hear the answers.
So my routine has been a lack routine.
And I try and control a small, an hour
of the beginning of my day.
What about for you?
How do you manage it now with the family?
Because a lot of folks are like,
oh, my god, I've got the kids.
I've gotta get them off to school.
But there's still time for you in there.
How do you make that happen?
- Well again, different stage in life.
Our kids are out of the house.
So our oldest lives in Colorado.
Our youngest lives in a house with two other
special need adults and a caregiver right now
and is loving it.
He's pretty independent.
So it's a great situation.
So that gives us more time
to do stuff we might wanna do.
I love my mornings.
And I live sitting there with a cup of coffee
and figuring stuff out and reading the news
and getting ready for the day.
Sometimes that's half an hour.
Sometimes that's an hour and a half.
But I love that time.
It's quiet and I can figure out what the day will bring.
And our life has changed so much
because used to be Sunday would be family dinner time.
And we'd have friends over and all this stuff.
And now the kids are gone.
Okay, let's play golf and eat
at the club or something like that.
Again, different stage in life
and our family is our friends.
We spend a lot of time with different groups
and travel a lot.
- Travel; where do you like to go?
- Well, I told you we have a house Cabo.
- Yeah, I'm on a flight and look over.
Oh man, you again.
All tan, you look like you come back from Cabo.
- Yeah, we don't spend much time there,
but I hope to spend more time there in the future.
I love it; I love different cultures and languages
and food and all that.
So it's always fun.
- You still keep up the German?
- Yeah, I say my German and I speak teenage German
because I left as a teenager,
so it hasn't improved much since.
(laughing)
- What about your family?
Is language an important part of the family heritage?
- My parents are still around,
so I saw them a couple of months ago.
They're struggling in their 80s.
But they're doing well relatively.
- How about have you tried to pass German heritage,
language, any of that down to your kids?
- My oldest, yeah.
We had him a little bit in German school.
He hated it when he was younger.
But he understands a little bit.
And he actually played for the
Junior German National team.
He has dual citizenship.
So when he was in high school
he went over one summer,
one of my buddies coached the Junior National team.
So he stayed there for literally eight weeks
and played there and loved it, had a really good time.
So they have dual citizenship.
They could go back.
My youngest, English is hard enough for him.
He has some speech issues.
So we focus on one language there.
(laughing)
- If you had one truth that you,
it doesn't have to be the ultimate,
the best truth, the most truth.
But is there something that you know
in your core to be true?
This is the last question, I promise.
We keep it to an hour and we're getting close.
Is there a truth?
- Wow, that's deep.
- Yeah, you know philosophical.
- Well, we're born as takers.
We take for a long, long time.
Again, teenagers starting, but pro athletes,
a lot of us take it a lot longer.
But eventually you gotta get to a point
where you gotta give something back.
And I feel like you can't keep track of it.
It's really hard.
People say, oh, this is
every time you take something, put it back in or whatever.
I don't think you keep track of it.
But if you feel like you're not making a dent,
then you're probably not doing enough.
And there's no end to it.
It's like, okay, I've done enough.
You've gotta find a way,
whatever it is, whatever you're good at,
whoever you can touch to give something back
because that's all we're really here for.
Because it's not what kinda car you drive
or what kinda house you live in,
it's more like what the people,
how they interact with you and what they think about you.
Unfortunately, not everyone will get there.
- I think we can do our part to give,
I think there's no better way to end our conversation.
I appreciate you and your time.
Thank you for coming by.
- Thanks for having me.
- Man, a lot of wisdom.
Congratulations on an amazing arc of a career,
for being such a pilar of the community here in Seattle.
Appreciate you, bud.
- Appreciate you too.
- All right, signing off,
Mr. Detlef Schrempf, two-time Olympian,
three-time NBA All-Star,
appreciate having you on the show, bud.
See you again hopefully tomorrow.
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