Christian Tissier is a French Aikido practitioner.
One of the very few non-Japanese in history to have reached the title of 8th Dan Shihan.
He started Aikido at the age of 11
and is now one of the biggest influences of the international Aikido community.
Willing to get to the roots of his art,
he embarked on a trans-Siberian train at the age of 18 for a journey to Japan
and started to train at the Aikikai Hombu Dojo,
where he stayed for 7 years, honing his skills and learning the language and culture of Japan.
Now, at the age of 67, he gives seminars all around the globe, throughout the year, including Japan.
It is on one of these occasions that he offered us the opportunity to sit together in the legendary Butokuden of Kyoto,
to talk about his personal relation to Aikido for over an hour.
That's why the notion of etiquette is important.
Because etiquette,
is already a frame easy to observe.
And it's more difficult than a Shomen Irimi Nage attack.
So if you already have acquired the etiquette,
you already acquired something regarding your relationship with people.
So you become what your practice brings you.
Sometimes you need to be more aggressive in your practice.
You need to
Why, you don't know.
When I say "aggressive", I don't mean "mean".
There are some who go over the limit sometimes, who hurt people.
But you need to go through this,
like someone who's 15-16 years old, he needs... he's gonna do stupid things.
Of course!
Everyone has done stupid things, because...
as they say, youth must have its fling,
if you've never done stupid things,
you'll do them when you're 60, then it's worse.
There are periods in life.
Someone who's 18, who wants to work as...
You're 18 years old, move!
Move it!
I don't mind you being a little [aggressive]...
At least make sure it fits who you are.
And then you'll see, things will change.
In the same way, you have people who are a certain age,
my age for instance,
who would still like to fall.
No, it's not the moment anymore.
I never saw Yamaguchi Sensei fall.
I knew him when he was 47 years old. I never saw the Dochu fall.
Except in movies.
Maybe a little backward fall.
I never saw...
You have a status... you see?
I would love to be able to fall the way I used to.
It's illusory, it's not possible anymore,
and it's not my role, it's not my role.
So everyone in his time...
If you've never fallen when you're young,
it's definitely going to be complicated.
Now you say "I still want to be young, I want to fall".
No, it's not your place, because...
you also lose your status, so you will work with people who are 2nd Dan, they will throw you around.
For them too it's not right.
You don't teach them anything more because...
That's what finding one's place means.
Aikido teaches you this all throughout your practice.
You learn it, but as a teacher, you too need to tell people...
In terms of status, I worked with Didier who is 7th Dan, who is over 70 years old and a good practitioner.
There was another good American practitioner,
Greg O'Connor, older, strong, 7th Dan.
I tell them, "Can you take a front ukemi, do you want to?"
I can make them fall.
But well...
I want it to make them happy too at the same time.
It's not like a guy you meet somewhere who wants to block you.
I will not even make him fall, I will make the movement but hey...
I have nothing to prove.
If it makes them happy yes, I will do it, properly.
And that's important. I take Yoko Sensei, I take people who have a status.
We must also respect who they are.
Respect what they represent.
Because it's not fake.
I like this communication.
It's a bit long, what I explain, but... [Jordy: No, it's very important.]
It's more of a discussion than an interview.
I try to deliver a little...
this kind of relationship with people.
It's why I really like working...
I saw a lot of that...
from a lot of people, Yoko Sensei...
[Jordy: How do you deal with people when the relationship goes bad?].
It doesn't go bad anymore, no, I don't feel it.
It happened when I was 4th-5th Dan.
Because there is a good chance that at that time,
I still wanted to prove something.
So when you want to prove something,
you put yourself in danger and there are people who want to test you.
Maybe a few want to test me sometimes, certainly.
Either, I don't realize it...
Or they don't feel like it because...
And if I am blocked, what does it change?
I heard about people who came to your seminars,
who intended to block you and who eventually did not find the heart to.
It also happened to me to knock some guys out.
I have the ability too.
I'm not mean, but it happened to me sometimes to have...
real assholes,
who I had to, at some point...
calm down.
It happened to me two or three times.
But that bothers me.
Because if it doesn't happen, it's because there is no opening.
Then if it happens, it happens...
Just to come back to Japan a bit,
while staying on the subject of today's Aikido,
there are not much more French people now than 10 or 15 years ago, it doesn't really increase.
The number of people who live here and come to study Aikido.
So maybe the Aikikai missed something...
No, I don't think so.
I think that...
To come to study in Japan there are,
there are two things.
There is: 1...
the need for technique
which is important
and which you don't find in your environment.
Or, you mastered it and you say "I'm going to check out the next level."
And at the same time the attraction.
To come to Japan for a month is tourism, even if you practice Aikido.
If you decide to come to Japan to stay a certain number of years to practice Aikido,
then you need to have an attraction for the technique, and at the same time...
a cultural attraction for the country, these two things are needed.
So,
now traveling became so easy.
People who are here,
who are in Japan,
3-4 months a year,
they come for a month, they leave, they have a dojo, it's easy now.
You come, you can train.
It's easier to do it like that
than staying for long
because when you stay for a long time, you need an apartment, a job...
Whereas if you have the opportunity from time to time to take a month off, you come for a month.
You rent a little something, so it's easier.
And that's definitely possible.
Then, on the technical side maybe there are fewer needs,
there are also a lot of exchanges.
Throughout the year, I give seminars.
But at the same time, those who don't train with me, they can go with...
there is Endo Sensei, Miyamoto Sensei, Yasuno Sensei, there is...
[Jordy: Seki sensei, in the south...]
There is Tada Sensei who is there twice a year [in France] in April and in July, there is Yamada Sensei...
then there are all the European Sensei, so there is not the same need anymore.
When I came here,
the highest ranks in Europe were 2nd Dan.
I was 2nd Dan,
the highest ranks were 3rd Dan, they were Tamura' students, two or three elders.
Roberto etc...
Who were older, who had started before, with Nakazono, with Jean Zin, who were 3rd Dan,
it was the maximum.
If we wanted to work with others who were 3rd, 4th Dan...
There were none.
Do you think it's important that in French Aikido there are still people
who have a long experience of Japan, a bit like yours, an understanding of the culture?
[Christian: Yes of course, but there are some!]
There are two or three of them who have recently returned.
Yes there are some, but of course there are some.
[Jordy: But is this important for Aikido?]
I don't know if it's important, I don't know if it's important...
it's important if they don't miss out on something.
I know many who missed out on something.
They go home, they come back...
The problem if you want...
If you plan to come and practice Aikido [in Japan]
and also one day I want to teach,
you need to have a very solid basis.
But a basis that is not marked.
By that I mean, take the Hombu dojo,
All Uchi-Deshi went through exactly the same mold, okay.
Even some who didn't really want to at first,
despite everything, they went through the same mold, okay?
Because it's like that, and after...
everyone lives his life...
It does not prevent them from having different forms of Aikido.
Absolutely, except that they have... there is something [the Kihon].
Then you have people coming here, French, American, whatever,
for a set of reasons, because they like it, or because they were taken as Uke, etc...
They will work exclusively with someone [a teacher]
and they will have that person's form.
I have nothing against this form.
But often it will be difficult when they'll go home.
Because often they do not have the experience of other forms.
They have to shape people to match what they do.
For the kata... to work.
So you have to tell [your student] "When I do this, you have to do that..."
It doesn't work... that's why it doesn't work.
You need to have something solid from the start.
Know your kata well: Suwariwaza, Tachiwaza, Ikkyo, Nikyo, Sankyo, Yonkyo Omote, as it should be done.
As you must do, as everyone has learned.
Then you live your life, it's interesting or not...
You add things... but they start from a solid foundation,
if you don't have this solid foundation,
it will not work.
Do you come to Japan very often?
[No.]
Every year?... [Not very often now]
Yes, almost yes, I come over.
When I left Japan, I came for roughly fifteen years about four months a year.
Two months in winter, two months in summer.
I kept coming to practice, and then less often, because...
In Japan I cannot go to someone else's class because...
What is your relationship to the country and the people when you come here? How do you feel?
It's either in the context of Aikido, which is totally different,
as we can see,
it comes from relationships I had when I was here,
or it's the relationship with people, which I like a lot.
I like it a lot because I feel good in Japan.
First of all because that's where I spent my adolescence,
my youth was a Japanese youth.
I feel good and then the more time goes, the more I feel...
Yes, I feel very comfortable with communication because I know how it works...
When I lived in Japan,
I used to speak Japanese better than now.
Obviously, I used to speak every day.
Sometimes I spoke Japanese with someone and he wanted to answer in English.
It annoyed me.
I'm not American.
Now I'm happy because...
he wants to please me.
I didn't understand it at the time.
I was stubborn and I didn't understand.
I was with some kids in a temple and they were so happy: "Hello, hello, what is your name?"
If my grandson, who is eight years old,
sees a Spanish or an American or a Japanese who comes to him and say three words in his language
I am very happy.
And we don't understand that. It must have happened to you?
[Jordy: Yes, of course]
"We put barriers", but no...
So for me, relationships now are much easier.
Experience and detachment come as well....
There's detachment too...
I'm not expecting anything, so there's nothing to...
When you arrived in 68
Yes, in 68
It was just after the last insurrections, violent demonstrations that occurred in Japan in May '68.
It started a little after 68.
[Jordy: It lasted a little bit later.]
Because back home it was May 68 [Jordy: Yes.]
Here it was a little later.
Yes, a little later, yes.
Yes it was violent Jordy: It was violent!
Oh yes, I remember.
They talk about a peaceful country...
It was... It was not as violent as in France, however.
It was not as violent as in France because there were fewer people.
But yes, there was a lot of unrest, yes, I remember it well.
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