>> WE'RE GOING HAVE SOME BREAKING NEWS STORIES TONIGHT
INVOLVING THE INVESTIGATION OF RUSSIAN INTERFERENCE IN OUR
PRESIDENTIAL ELECTION IN FAVOR OF THE TRUMP CAMPAIGN.
"THE WASHINGTON POST" IS REPORTING TONIGHT THAT THE
RUSSIAN INTERFERENCE IN THE ELECTION, WHICH WAS DESIGNED TO
HELP THE TRUMP CAMPAIGN MAY BE PAYING OFF VERY SOON.
THE POST REPORTS THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION IS MOVING TOWARD
HANDING BACK TO RUSSIA TWO DIPLOMATIC COMPOUNDS NEAR NEW
YORK CITY AND ON MARYLAND'S EASTERN SHORE FROM WHICH ITS
OFFICIALS WERE EJECTED IN LATE DECEMBER AS PUNISHMENT FOR
MOSCOW'S INTERFERENCE IN THE 2016 PRESIDENTIAL ELECTION.
THEN PRESIDENT BARACK OBAMA SAID DECEMBER 29th THAT THE COMPOUNDS
WERE BEING USED BY RUSSIAN PERSONNEL FOR
INTELLIGENCE-RELATED PURPOSES, AND GAVE RUSSIA 24 HOURS TO
VACATE THEM. THESE ARE THE RUSSIAN
GOVERNMENT'S PLAYPENS HERE IN THE UNITED STATES.
THEY ARE LUXURY RETREATS WHERE RUSSIAN DIPLOMATS PLAY TENNIS,
SWIM, AND SAIL AND APPARENTLY PLAN THEIR ATTACKS ON AMERICAN
DEMOCRACY. THE OTHER BIG BREAKING NEWS
STORY TONIGHT IN THE INVESTIGATION INVOLVES ATTORNEY
GENERAL JEFF SESSIONS, WHO FAMOUSLY TOLD SENATOR AL FRANKEN
IN HIS CONFIRMATION HEARING THAT HE DID NOT HAVE COMMUNICATIONS
WITH THE RUSSIANS DURING THE TRUMP CAMPAIGN.
JEFF SESSIONS GAVE THAT TESTIMONY UNDER OATH.
SENATOR AL FRANKEN WILL JOIN US TONIGHT, AND WE'LL GET HIS
REACTION TO A NEW REPORT THAT CONGRESSIONAL INVESTIGATORS AND
THE FBI ARE INVESTIGATING ANOTHER POSSIBLE MEETING BETWEEN
JEFF SESSIONS AND RUSSIAN AMBASSADOR SERGEY KISLYAK, A
MEETING THAT THE ATTORNEY GENERAL HAS NEVER REVEALED AND
DID NOT REVEAL IN HIS CORRECTED TESTIMONY TO THE SENATE
JUDICIARY COMMITTEE. THE FBI IS A LOOKING INTO
WHETHER THERE WAS AN ADDITIONAL PRIVATE MEETING AT THE MAYFLOWER
HOTEL IN WASHINGTON. AND EARLIER TODAY, NBC NEWS
LEARNED THAT FORMER FBI DIRECTOR JAMES COMEY IS EXPECTED TO
TESTIFY IN PUBLIC NEXT WEEK AFTER HAVING BEEN CLEARED TO
TESTIFY BY SPECIAL PROSECUTOR ROBERT MUELLER.
THE "WALL STREET JOURNAL" REPORTS THAT JAMES COMEY IS
EXPECTED TO TESTIFY THAT PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP ASKED HIM
TO BACK OFF THE INVESTIGATION OF FORMER NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISER
MIKE FLYNN, ACCORDING TO A PERSON FAMILIAR WITH THE MATTER.
THE SPECIAL PROSECUTOR IS EXPANDING HIS STAFF NOW TO
INCLUDE AN EXPERT ON FOREIGN CORRUPTION.
BLOOMBERG REPORTS THAT ANDREW WEISMAN, THE HEAD OF THE JUSTICE
DEPARTMENT'S FRAUD SECTION IN THE OBAMA ADMINISTRATION WILL
JOIN THE SPECIAL PROSECUTOR'S STAFF OF ATTORNEYS.
ACCORDING TO BLOOMBERG, WEISMAN'S SPECIALTIES HAVE
INCLUDED CORPORATE WRONGDOING AND FOREIGN CORRUPTION.
WEISMAN PREVIOUSLY WORKED FOR MUELLER AS THE FBI'S GENERAL
COUNSEL FROM 2011 TO 2013. THE HOUSE INTELLIGENCE COMMITTEE
APPROVED FOUR SUBPOENAS TODAY FOR FORMER NATIONAL SECURITY
ADVISER MICHAEL FLYNN AND ONE OF MICHAEL FLYNN'S BUSINESSES AS
WELL AS SUBPOENA FOR PRESIDENT'S PERSON LAWYER MICHAEL COHEN AND
A SUBPOENA FOR MICHAEL COHEN'S BUSINESS.
THE REPUBLICAN AND DEMOCRATIC LEADERS OF THE HOUSE
INTELLIGENCE COMMITTEE SAID THERE WAS BIPARTISAN SUPPORT IN
THE COMMITTEE TO VOTE TO APPROVE THE ISSUANCE OF THOSE SUBPOENAS.
JOINING US NOW, ED McMULLAN, FORMER INDEPENDENT PRESIDENTIAL
CANDIDATE. HE IS THE CO-FOUNDER OF STAND UP
REPUBLIC. ALSO WITH US MIEKE EOYANG, A
LAWYER AND FORMER HOUSE INTELLIGENCE COMMITTEE STAFF
MEMBER. AND THE VICE PRESIDENT OF THE
NATIONAL SECURITY PROGRAM AT THE THIRD WAY.
AND EUGENE ROBINSON, PULITZER PRIZE WINNING OPINION WRITER FOR
"THE WASHINGTON POST" JOINS US TONIGHT.
HE IS ALSO AN MSNBC POLITICAL ANALYST.
AND GENE, I WANT TO GO FIRST OF ALL TO WHAT COULD BE THE TRUMP
ADMINISTRATION REWARD TO RUSSIA, GIVING THEM BACK THEIR PLAYPENS
ON LONG ISLAND AND ON CHESAPEAKE BAY WHERE PRESIDENT TRUMP --
PRESIDENT OBAMA SAID THEY ACTUALLY USED THOSE FACILITIES
NOT JUST FOR RECREATION, BUT IN THOSE FACILITIES PART OF THE
PLANNING OF THE INTERFERENCE WITH OUR ELECTION TOOK PLACE.
YOU WOULD THINK THAT A TRUMP ADMINISTRATION SENSITIVE TO
APPEARANCE WOULD SAY, WELL, NO MATTER WHAT WE THINK OF THE
MERITS OF THE CASE, WE CAN'T GIVE THOSE THINGS BACK.
IT WILL JUST -- IT WILL LOOK BAD.
BUT APPARENTLY, THERE SEEMS TO BE NO INHIBITION ABOUT THAT IN
THE TRUMP WHITE HOUSE. >> APPARENTLY NO INHIBITION.
ONE UNDERSTANDS WHY AMBASSADOR SERGEY KISLYAK WOULD WANT HIS
DACHA BACK OR HIS DACHAS. >> YES.
>> HE WOULD LOVE TO HAVE THEM BACK.
BUT THIS ADMINISTRATION SEEMS INCAPABLE OF THAT OVER
REFLECTION. AND THAT SORT OF CALCULATION OF
RISK-REWARD. AND AS A RESULT, YOU KNOW, THE
STORY LIKE THIS COMES OUT. AND ONCE AGAIN, CREATES YET
ANOTHER CLOUD OF SMOKE THAT SIGNALS TO PEOPLE LOOKING AT
RUSSIA, THE RUSSIA ISSUE THAT THERE MUST BE A FIRE SOME PLACE.
THEY KEEP DOING THIS. AND I DON'T QUITE UNDERSTAND
WHY. >> EVAN McMULLAND, IN ORDER TO
RELAX IT, YOU PRESUMABLY WOULD HAVE HAD TO GET SOMETHING FROM
THE RUSSIANS OR SOME KIND OF CORRECTIVE IN RUSSIAN BEHAVIOR
FOR THAT TO HAPPEN. WHAT HAS THE TRUMP
ADMINISTRATION GOTTEN FROM THE RUSSIANS?
>> WELL, THAT'S THE MILLION DOLLAR QUESTION.
I THINK YOU GENE PROVIDES A VERY GOOD ANALYSIS UNDER TRADITIONAL
TERMS. WHAT HAS HAPPENED HERE THAT
WOULD JUSTIFY THE RETURN OF THESE PROPERTIES.
BUT I'LL TELL YOU THAT WE'RE IN NONTRADITIONAL TIMES.
WE'RE IN UNCHARTED WATERS HERE. I WOULD PROPOSE THERE IS A
REASON, PROBABLY A WELL THOUGHT OUT REASON THAT THE TRUMP
ADMINISTRATION WANTS TO RETURN THESE PROPS.
I DON'T THINK IT'S A GOOD REASON.
I THINK IT'S THE TYPE OF REASON THAT WARRANTS AN INVESTIGATION.
BUT CLEARLY, THE KREMLIN HAS LEVERAGE OF SOME KIND OR HEAVY
INFLUENCE OF SOME KIND OVER THIS ADMINISTRATION.
AND YOU'RE SEEING EVIDENCE OF IT IN THIS STORY.
>> MIEKE, WHEN IT LOOKED AT FROM MOSCOW'S SIDE OF THIS, IF MOSCOW
REALLY DOES WANT INFLUENCE WITH THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION AND IT
WANTS TO KIND OF GET AWAY WITH USING THAT INFLUENCE, WOULDN'T
THEY SAY, YOU KNOW WHAT? KEEP THE VILLAS FOR THIS SUMMER.
WE'LL SOMEHOW SURVIVE BECAUSE WE DON'T WANT IT TO LOOK LIKE WE
OWN YOU. >> SO I THINK THAT THE RUSSIANS
WOULD BE MORE CLEVER THAN THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION IF THAT'S
WHAT THEY'RE SAYING TO THEM. I MEAN, IT SEEMS VERY SIMPLE.
IF TRUMP BELIEVES THAT THE RUSSIANS ACTUALLY HELPED HIM WIN
THIS ELECTION, THEN THIS IS THEIR REWARD FOR DOING.
SO BUT IF TRUMP IS REALLY THE DEFENDER OF THE CONSTITUTION AND
THE DEFENDER OF THE AMERICAN ELECTORAL SYSTEM, THEN SHOW BE
WANTING TO PUNISH THE RUSSIANS FOR THEIR INTERFERENCE, NOT JUST
AGAINST HILLARY CLINTON, BUT AGAINST OTHER REPUBLICAN
CANDIDATES AND STOP THEM FROM DOING IT AGAIN.
BUT THAT HE GIVES IT BACK NOW? IT REALLY LOOKS LIKE A REWARD TO
THE RUSSIANS FOR HELPING HIM ACROSS THE FINISH LINE.
>> YEAH, AND EUGENE, THAT'S THE QUESTION THAT ADAM SCHIFF ASKED
TONIGHT IN A TWEET. WHY REWARD THEM.
>> YES. >> AND IT'S NOT CLEAR THAT WE'RE
EVER GOING TO GET ANSWERS TO THAT.
NOW THAT BASICALLY COMMUNICATIONS ABOUT THIS ARE
BEING KIND OF SHUT DOWN WITHIN THE TRUMP WHITE HOUSE.
THINGS ARE GETTING REFERRED TO LAWYERS AND ALL THAT SORT OF
THING. AS THE SUBPOENAS START TO FLY WE
TALKED ABOUT THIS LAST NIGHT ON THIS PROGRAM, THAT MICHAEL
COHEN, DONALD TRUMP'S LAWYER REFUSED TO COOPERATE WITH THE
COMMITTEE. SO THE NEXT STAGE IS OF COURSE
HE GETS HIT WITH SUBPOENAS. NOW WE'RE SEEING MICHAEL FLYNN,
MICHAEL COHEN FACED WITH THIS DECISION ABOUT HOW DO THEY
COMPLY WITH THESE SUBPOENAS. >> THAT'S RIGHT.
ONE WONDERS IF THEY WILL COMPLY FULLY WITH THE SUBPOENAS AND
WHAT FURTHER STEPS ARE AVAILABLE TO THE COMMITTEE AND ARE TAKEN
BY THE COMMITTEE. MEANWHILE, THE BIG
INVESTIGATION, THE SERIOUS INVESTIGATION, ROBERT MUELLER'S
INVESTIGATION CONTINUES, AND WILL CLEARLY WANT TO LOOK AT AND
TALK TO AND EXAMINE RECORDS FROM THESE INDIVIDUALS AS WELL AS
OTHERS. BUT THE POINT THAT YOU JUST
RAISED, THOUGH, THE RUSSIANS ARE SOPHISTICATED ABOUT THIS SORT OF
THING, RIGHT. SO I WONDER WHY THEY DIDN'T JUST
SAY IX-NAY ON THE VILLAS OR PERHAPS THEY DID.
AND THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION MADE THESE PRELIMINARY MOVES TO
GIVE THEM BACK ANYWAY. IT'S ALL VERY STRANGE.
AND YOU HAVE TO WONDER, IS IT THAT UNSOPHISTICATED?
OR ARE THEY THAT BEHOLDEN TO THE RUSSIANS?
>> MIEKE, I WANT TO TALK ABOUT THE SUBPOENAS SPECIFICALLY
ISSUED TO MICHAEL COHEN. BECAUSE HE MIGHT HAVE AN
ATTORNEY-CLIENT PRIVILEGE CLAIM ON SOME OF THE MATTERS THAT ARE
SUBPOENAED. BUT A LAWYER DOES NOT HAVE AN
ATTORNEY-CLIENT PRIVILEGE CLAIM IF THE LAWYER HIMSELF OR HERSELF
IS ENGAGED IN CRIMINAL CONDUCT OR SUSPECT CONDUCT.
THAT CLAIM WON'T SURVIVE UNDER THOSE KINDS OF CIRCUMSTANCES.
SO WHAT ARE YOU EXPECTING TO SEE IN THE EXECUTION OF THOSE
SUBPOENAS AGAINST MICHAEL COHEN, DONALD TRUMP'S PERSONAL LAWYER?
>> RIGHT. SO I THINK THAT THEY MIGHT HAVE
THIS ATTORNEY-CLIENT PRIVILEGE ISSUE EXCEPT THAT YOU HAVE TO
LOOK AT THE TIME FRAME IN WHICH THEY ARE ASKING FOR HIS
INFORMATION. IF IT WAS A TIME WHEN HE WAS ON
THE CAMPAIGN AS A STAFFER THERE AND NOT SERVING AS TRUMP'S
LAWYER, THEN YOU DON'T HAVE THAT PRESERVED DEFENSE, AND THEY CAN
ASK FOR DOCUMENTS. FOR HE IS SERVING THE
CORPORATION, A CORPORATION DOESN'T HAVE A FIFTH AMENDMENT
RIGHT TO HOLD BACK THE DOCUMENTS.
SO THEY COULD BE ASKING FOR THE DOCUMENT THERE'S TOO.
BUT WHAT THE SUBPOENAS REALLY SHOW IS THAT THE HOUSE IS
WORKING VERY HARD TO GET THEIR INVESTIGATION BACK ON TRACK.
>> EVAN McMULLIN, I WANT TO GO BACK IN TIME A LITTLE BIT TO A
TO A REPORT THAT CAME OUT ABOUT A SECRET MEETING THAT WAS MADE
WHEN YOU WERE IN THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES.
AND IT SHOWED KEVIN McCARTHY LAST YEAR IN A MEETING OF HOUSE
REPUBLICAN LEADERSHIP TALKING ABOUT THE IDEA OF RUSSIAN
INFLUENCE. AND HE SAID IN THAT MEETING THAT
HE BELIEVED THAT, TO QUOTE HIM FROM THE TAPE, HE SAID THERE ARE
TWO PEOPLE I THINK PUTIN PAYS, DANA ROHRABACHER AND DONALD
TRUMP. THEIR DEFENSE ON THAT WAS THAT,
OH, HE MEANT IT AS A JOKE. WHEN YOU HEARD IT IN THAT ROOM,
DID IT SOUND LIKE A JOKE TO YOU? >> NO.
NOT BY HIM THERE WAS A LOT OF LAUGHTER IN RESPONSE TO WHAT HE
SAID. HE DIDN'T MEAN IT AS A JOKE.
BUT THERE WERE MAYBE SOME CHUCKLES IN THERE, AS I RECALL.
BUT THEY'RE THE KIND OF CHUCKLES THAT YOU MAKE WHEN YOU'RE
TALKING ABOUT SOMETHING THATT I SO UNCOMFORTABLE AND SO SERIOUS
THAT, YOU KNOW, IT'S ALL YOU CAN DO TO TRY TO DEAL WITH IT.
SO IT'S JUST ONE OF THOSE THINGS, YOU KNOW.
WE'VE ALL HAD CONVERSATIONS OR ALL SAID TOUGH THINGS IN
SITUATIONS WHERE THE WAY WE ACT ABOUT IT IS PERHAPS A BIT
UNCOMFORTABLE. AND THAT'S HOW I WOULD DESCRIBE
IT. >> AND HE IMMEDIATELY FOLLOWED
IT UP ACCORDING TO THE TRANSCRIPT IN THE FACE OF THOSE
CHUCKLES WITH AN INSISTENT "I SWEAR TO GOD."
IT READ TO ME LIK LIKE HE WAS TG TO EMPHATICALLY BE SERIOUS ABOUT
IT. >> YEAH.
A LOT OF PEOPLE LAUGHED. AND HE WAS TRYING TO MAKE THE
POINT THAT THERE WAS SOMETHING THERE, I THOUGHT.
>> AND YOUR EXPERIENCE, IS THAT GENERALLY THE WAY PEOPLE WITH
THE DOORS CLOSED IN THE REPUBLICAN MEETINGS AND THE
HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TALKED ABOUT DONALD TRUMP AND THE
CAMPAIGN? >> THAT CONVERSATION STOOD OUT.
BUT I WILL TELL YOU THAT HOUSE REPUBLICAN LEADERSHIP UNDERSTOOD
THAT RUSSIA PRESENTED A SERIOUS THREAT TO DEMOCRACY BOTH HERE
AND N THE UNITED STATES AND IN EUROPE.
AND THEY SAW THE THREAT EMERGING AND EMERGING HERE, AND
UNDERSTOOD DONALD TRUMP'S STRANGE RELATIONSHIP, UNDERSTOOD
AS FAR AS THEY COULD WITH VLADIMIR PUTIN OR UNDERSTOOD
THAT IT WAS UNHEALTHY. AND UNFORTUNATELY THAT.
>> DECIDED THAT INSTEAD OF OPPOSING HIM, THEY WERE GOING TO
ULTIMATELY GET ON THE TRUMP TRAIN.
AND THAT'S HIGHLY DISAPPOINTING. AND I THINK WE NEED TO EXPECT
MORE AND BETTER FROM OUR LEADERS.
>> GENE ROBINSON, THERE MAY BE FINALLY SOMEONE CLOSING IN ON
THE TRUMP TAX RETURNS. POLITICO REPORTING THAT THE
SPECIAL PROSECUTOR DOES HAVE THE LEGAL AUTHORITY TO OBTAIN THOSE
TAX RETURNS IN HIS INVESTIGATION.
AND SO DONALD TRUMP MUST BE PONDERING TONIGHT JUST HOW WISE
IT WAS TO SEND HIS ADMINISTRATION DOWN A PATH THAT
LED TO THIS SPECIAL PROSECUTOR. >> OBVIOUSLY IT WAS UNWISE.
ROBERT MUELLER, IF YOU LOOK AT HIS CAREER AND HIS REPUTATION,
HE IS NOTHING IF NOT THOROUGHOR. SO I DOUBT SERIOUSLY HE'LL JUST
GO FOR ONE WERE TO YEARS' WORTH OF TAX RETURNS.
I THINK HE'LL GO BACK. I THINK HE'LL LOOK AT CORPORATE
SUBSIDIARY CORPORATE ENTITIES, ALL THESE COMPANIES WITHIN
COMPANIES THAT TRUMP HAS. BUT STEP BACK FOR A SECOND,
LAWRENCE. ALL THAT NEWS THAT WE'VE HAD IN
THE LAST FIVE MINUTES, YOU KNOW, THESE DAYS THIS IS JUST LIKE
WEDNESDAY, RIGHT? THIS IS JUST A DAY.
IT'S KIND OF LIKE THAT. IT'S REALLY QUITE AN
EXTRAORDINARY MOMENT THAT WE'RE LIVING THROUGH.
AND IT'S EXHAUSTING, BUT I HAVE A FEELING IT'S GOING TO BE THIS
WAY FOR A WHILE AS THIS STORY COMES OUT.
>> AND MIEKE, WE'RE GOING TO HAVE AN EXTRAORDINARY DAY OF
MUCINEX WEEK THAT WE'LL ALL BE COVERING AND DISCUSSING.
APPARENTLY JAMES COMEY'S TESTIMONY AS EARLY AS NEXT WEEK.
AND WHAT DO YOU ANTICIPATE WILL BE REVEALED IN THAT?
DO YOU THINK WE'LL ACTUALLY SEE OR THE COMMITTEE MEMBERS WILL
SEE THE NOTES THAT HE TOOK ABOUT THOSE CONVERSATIONS WITH THE
PRESIDENT? >> SO THEY MAY SEE THEM IN
CLOSED SECTION. I THINK THERE IS A REAL QUESTION
ABOUT WHETHER OR NOT THE PUBLIC WILL GET TO SEE THEM.
BUT YOU'LL SEE THE MEMBERS QUESTIONING HIM ABOUT THESE
INTERACTIONS WITH TRUMP, WHICH MAY OR MAY NOT LEAD UP TO
OBSTRUCTION OF JUSTICE, WHERE TRUMP IS ASKING HIM TO GO SOFT
ON FLYNN. >> AND MIEKE, QUICKLY, BEFORE
WE GET A BREAK IN HERE, WHAT DO YOU
SUPPOSE WERE INVOLVED IN COMEY'S DISCUSSIONS WITH THE SPECIAL
PROSECUTOR ABOUT HIS SENATE TESTIMONY UPCOMING.
WHAT DOES IT MEAN TO SAY THAT THE SPECIAL PROSECUTOR CLEARED
HIM TO TESTIFY TO THE SENATE? >> SO I THINK THAT THE SPECIAL
PROSECUTOR NEEDS TO KNOW WHAT HE KNOWS IN ADVANCE, JUST TO MAKE
SURE THAT THERE IS NO NAFGS SPECIAL PROSECUTOR MIGHT WANT TO
HOLD BACK FOR A CRIMINAL CASE. AND PERHAPS ALSO TO LOOK AT IT
FOR QUESTIONS OF EXECUTIVE PRIVILEGE, OTHER REASONS WHY
SUCH TESTIMONY MIGHT NOT BE
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