Hello everybody welcome to this week's
episode of The County Seat, I'm your host Chad
Booth. The elections are over and the results
are in now for the people in our panel
discussion today that is a big statement for
them to make because they can sigh a sigh of
relief because the process is concluded. Today
we have with us for our conversation about
mail in ballots a new process for voting that has
swept across the state county clerks from
across the state I will introduce them now.
Joanne Evans the clerk auditor from Duchesne
county thank you for driving in today. We have
Ricky Hatch from Weber County and we have
Sherri Swenson who is the Salt Lake County
Clerk it's nice to have a nice spread of different
counties from across the state. So for a lot of us
vote by mail seems like a new thing if we
missed an election a city election it's all still kind
of a new process. I want to start this
conversation with a little bit of the history and
JoAnne that is why you got invited to the table
today because Duchesne was the first county to
go all mail, and that not male that mail. Tell me
a bit about the implementation or the history
why did you guys decide to do this?
We did I for a couple different reasons we
needed to reduce some costs our budget was
getting tight and the economy was going low
type of thing but mostly because we were
chopped into 3 different house districts and we
wanted to have representation for Duchesne
county and after a lot of research and thinking
things through and talking with the
commissioners we decided that the best way to
do that was to go by mail and try to increase
our numbers. It worked for us up to a point.
than a machine ballot other than the fact that
the voting machines are expensive.
Well our voting machines total turn out when
we were running those we were only getting in
the upper 40's maybe low 50 percent turnout.
When we went by mail the very first year we
were 80% and in this last presidential race that
we had last year we got almost 90% so it
increases for us a whole tremendous amount.
Let me turn that perspective because they are
the ones that started the state for the two of
you. Did you think they were nuts when they
decided to vote by mail or had you guys been
contemplating?
Not at all in fact as soon as the law would allow
us to conduct regular elections by mail in 2013
were contracting to do the municipal elections
and we offered the cities opportunity to
conduct their elections by mail and the first two
cities that came on board was Cottonwood
Heights and West Jordan and they were so
successful the turnout in those city elections
was 2 and half 3 times what they had seen in
the past in a comparable election when people
had to go to polling places so we knew that it
was a success.
What were your reactions?
We already knew JoAnne was nuts because
she's an election official and we are all crazy.
We were impressed by her because it is scary to
take a new step we had been hearing the
advantages by mail up in Oregon and
Washington for quite some time and we could
see from an election administration stand point
a lot of benefits but it is scary to take the leap
so when JoAnne did it was kind of hold your
breath and we hope it works out. As it started
coming in and we started seeing it was working
for her county we talked more about the
benefits and we thought we did not see a lot of
downside here it seems like a good thing on the
elections administration side but also for the
voters as well.
So change is very hard particularly for
governments because they get traditions and
you get new people elected and it's just kind of
an issue, so briefly was there opposition in your
counties internally about them saying oh let's
not go down this road.
There was not in our county because we had
already had those discussions about what
would be best for us to get people in so there
was not any controversy with our county
officials at all.
For our county it was actually a fortuitous time
we had a special election that dealt with
property taxes but it was held in June was is
normally a lower turn out period and we
proposed this to the commission they said this
is the only way we can do this because we know
it will get higher turnout but we need the
decision and we do not want to wait until
November so it was a perfect time for them to
do it so actually we did not get any push back
either.
What about you, you have more people to deal
with than anybody?
Yes, when we first offered it to the cities the
cities that did not come on board in 2013
wanted to see how it worked for the other
cities were the two that did and then they were
convinced that it was successful so they came
on board so for the county council they were
very receptive there was a little concern they
had to explain the turn out would be better the
cost would be less and they would be very
supportive.
That is an excellent place to take a break from
the County Seat and when we come back we
will come back and talk about the costs of the
savings and how a county realizes that by doing
a vote by mail,
Welcome back to the County Seat we are
talking today about vote by mail we are now
into how many elections with this system? How
about Salt Lake County?
We did our first two municipals elections in the
primary in 2013 and then we did it again in
2015 so there was 4 and then last year there
was 7 for Salt Lake County.
Yes we were about the same our first election
was in 2013 and we kept going.
We have been going since the primary of 2010.
Okay as now as I understand this everybody has
options. It's not like you have to vote by mail
and if you do not have a mail box than you get
cheated out of voting. I guess that would be
the only way you would be cheated out of
voting if you did not have a mail box?
Then you still have options. Vote by mail is a
little bit of a misnomer not necessarily a
misnomer but it is misunderstood. For me vote
by mail simply means I mail the voter ballot if
you are a voter you are going to get a ballot in
the mail about 3 to 4 weeks before the election.
Now you have several options on how you are
going to cast that ballot you can vote it stamp it
put it in the mail. You can vote it and drop it in a
drop box you wait until election day and drop it
in ballot box at the voting center you can go in
person if you have visual impairment or other
needs or questions you can vote on machines in
person and some counties have early voting you
can vote early there are all sorts of different
options.
about cost savings and everybody says it saves
them money but it looks like you had to put
more options on the table if you can still go in
and vote at a polling place how are you saving
money as you still have to have the polls open.
I'd like to respond to that. We used to have
traditional polling places and for instances we
had in the 2012 presidential election 312 polling
locations and so having to prepare all of those
electronic voting machine for all those locations
having them employed by Companies having to
hire poll workers for all those locations that is
how it saves money. The preparation time for
getting all of that ready leading up to the
election versus getting ballots prepared and
mailing to people was so much more expensive
so we were able with vote by mail to
consolidate locations in the vote centers and
early voting locations and most people are
returning their vote my mail ballot versus
utilizing early voting and polling centers.
So let me ask that question just so people get a
comparison Sherry you have gone from 300
plus polling locations what did this last civic
election look like?
It was actually 36 voting centers and we had
early voting in 12 locations and so the majority
of the people that cast their vote did use their
vote by mail ballot.
Same as Weber.
So in Duchesne in being a very much more
sparsely populated state how did you do your
early voting or your walk in ballot?
We do not do early voting we are completely by
mail. We have drop boxes in different places
but mostly everybody can come to the clerk's
office because we are the center of the county
and we can fulfil their needs there.
machine in Duchesne County at all right now?
There is but it is for disabled voters but it can
turn if we really n need to accommodate a
regular voter but we prefer to stay all by mail.
That is great you put us on to a very good topic.
Misnomers that people have and we will make
that a point of our conversation when we come
back on The County Seat.
Welcome back to The County Seat we are
talking with county clerks and auditors from
across the state about the vote by mail
phenomena what is now part of our new and
adjusting culture here in Utah. We kind of
ended on a point where you say you have drop
boxes are there still a lot of people that are
afraid of putting something in the mail because
somebody is going to tamper with their ballot?
There are those people who do not want to do
that but they are a small minority they are
usually the older people or generation that
think it is their civic duty to go to a polling place
and stand in line and visit with their neighbors
about the issues and they have every right to be
worried about that and so we try to work
through that as they call us and visit with us so
that we can do some voter outreach and let
them know that it's okay.
How secure is this process I got my ballot thank
you Sherry in the mail you delivered it perfectly
had a little envelope in there and a little sleeve
so that everything was anonymous and I put my
stuff in there and granted because I was such a
lagger at voting I had to actually drop it off on
election day but I had not fear about mailing it.
How secure is this system? You are now
It is very secure. The Post Office takes great
care to separate our ballots out for us we have
a team that goes out to the post office every
day picks up the ballots if they are returned by
mail they are very secure and we treat them so
that the voters privacy is protected we have
that sleeve included in our ballot and we also
have a open machine its run through that is
sliced open the return envelope the sleeve is
removed the identifying factor that return
envelope is dropped in a bin beneath and the
person operating that would never be able to
tell which votes were attributed to that
individual. But if someone wants to drop their
ballot into the drop box we have in Salt Lake
County 18 of those and again like Ricky said
they could also go on Election Day and drop
their ballot at the vote center if they prefer that
they are very welcome to do that.
Voters are welcome go to voteutah.gov they
can check the status of their ballot on line so
you can verify that your ballot has been
returned and if the day before election day you
go there and it says it has not been received
come on in and vote and we will have you vote
provisionally if it eventually comes which ever
one comes to us first that is the vote we count
but never both. We have controls to control
that.
our election process by mail balloting process
and I am sure the other clerks can attest to this
as well we have had a lot of skeptics come
through we have never had a skeptic leave.
They always say wow we had no idea this is so
controlled one guy just recently said your
process and you have tighter security than
Boeing and I know because I work for them. It
was quite a compliment because he came in
skeptical. We have so many reconciliation
points and so much control always 2 people and
multiple reconciliation points throughout the
process. It's very safe.
Do you think there is less chance of a mistake
being made on somebody's ballot in the vote by
mail than say with machines?
I do not think there is less. People make
mistakes on their ballot they cross things out
they change them we do have to duplicate
ballots we use teams we log the original ballots
we can always refer back to it but that is also
allowed. If someone makes a mistake by a vote
by mail ballot and they send it in and we can
see they have crossed something out it may not
run through our automated scanners but we
take all the care in the world to make sure that
ballot is duplicated kept on file for reference
and the electronic machine if you cast a vote on
that machine it's a vote cast and its very secure
but both processes are very good.
Have you ever had a machine like smoking and
sparking on you or anything like that?
We had a server do that.
touch on one thing and you did kind of allude to
it that people feel they have a civic right to
vote. I have a neighbor and bless her heart she
is 80 years old and she if very active and she
votes she does not like the vote by mail because
she feels that she needs to go down and talk to
her neighbors and the people that volunteer in
the polling watchers and it's not as affective I
do not think she is concerned about safety she
is not doing what she is supposed to do. How
do you get people past that?
I don't know that you can change their mindset
overnight. I think it's a progression thing that
you have to do but when you are voting by mail
quite often we get feedback about people
sitting around their desks talking about the
issues and trying to decide what is best for our
county or nation or state and I think that is one
way she can view it as her civic duty would be
to instead of going to a polling place to discuss
it with people there that she could do it with
her family and friends at home and then drop
her ballot off.
We have heard of ballot marking parties folks
get around they bring their ballots they talk
about the issues they have computers they look
things up they discuss and when it comes time
to vote of course if people want to see or they
can vote privately but it's kind of a fun new idea
that you would not have in the traditional
polling place.
They have more time they get their ballot 3
weeks before the Election Day and they can
look things up and they are not surprised by a
proposition or a constitutional amendment and
they are not standing at the voting machine
going I do not know anything about this they
have time to research. I feel that it makes for a
more informed voter
I would have to agree. When I get a ballot I
open it up in the mail look at it right away most
of the stuff I have traditionally tried to be aware
of but when I actually see the language of the
proposition I got huh and I have had a chance to
look it up I go to the legislative record I can see
the progress of why it's there I suppose that
does help. I would like to talk about stats
because there were a lot of skeptics whether
this was going to work? Do all of you agree that
it has significantly increased voter turnout?
Yes.
By how big of a margin? When you come from
polling places from 300 to 36 how much have
you increased you vote participation.
Last year we had waiting lines because people
really we found out that out of the 55,000
people that went to our vote centers last year
in the general election about 45,000 of those
individuals actually had a vote by mail ballot
and the vote centers were men and really for
people who needed that facility but
nevertheless for whatever reason some of them
said they thought it was coupons they thought
it was junk mail we learned some lessons in that
and we make sure now that if someone wants
to vote in person we have enough of the vote
centers to accommodate which ever type of
election but as far as turn out last year in Salt
Lake County we had a record number of
registered voters and we had a 84% turnout of
a record number of registered voters in the
municipal elections the turnout absolutely has
been higher. We used to see in a primary like
we just had 10 12 percent turnout we saw
almost 27%. That is still not great with me.
That's embarrassing.
Yes it is but it still much better than it would
have been it been not been a vote by mail
election.
True. Not embarrassing to you you are doing
your job its embarrassing to us we don't get out
and do it.
We saw similar numbers I Weber county it's
hard to estimate what a voter turnout would be
if it was not vote by mail but in a primary or
special election that is normally a lower turn
out its least a 10 to 20% higher turn out when
you have vote by mail versus traditional.
Do you think it will improve with the future? Do
you think more people will actually start doing
this? I almost ran the risk of missing it this year
because I had some thinking to do about it and I
realized I was thinking down to the 14th and oh
no in general it's going to catch on do you think
it will improve naturally and organically going
forward?
I do because I think people will be more
informed about the process. One of the things
we encounter is the state law requires the
ballots if they return them by mail that they are
postmarked the day before election day and so
sometimes people think oh not postmarked I
cannot vote and they don't. They don't realize
the other options but they will get more
informed they don't realize about all of our
drop boxes and our vote center drop offs.
That message did get out this year in Salt Lake
County because I actually brought mine in and
dropped my off and it is very easy to do
dropped right there and said high to everybody
and left.
We had 2 stats that stuck out to me and this
primary election that we just had of all the
ballots casts at all of our vote centers and by
mail less than2% of all ballots casts were in
person on a machine. Now what was about 12
to 15% back in November so the voters seem
to be appreciating it and welcoming it and
trusting the process because that number
continues to drop the second one is a survey we
did with Weber county voters we did over1600
voters this was done by Weber State University
and 87% of them said that they felt that voting
by mail they were strongly supportive of it or
supportive of it they felt that they were starting
to embrace as they get more comfortable and
realize the convenience and benefit I think that
number will continue to rise.
Do you think the fear of it will subside? There
are some people that are just really leery about
turning it over. I've gone way over on this
segment we'll be right back on The County Seat.
Welcome back to The County Seat we have had
so much fun talking we have gone way over
time one last final thought if people still have
concern about vote by mail what should they
do.
They should come in and see us and watch the
process so that they can see how secure it is
and how important it is to us to keep it above
board and to know that we have their best
interest at heart.
So even a small county like Duchesne you can
come in and see the process?
You bet.
Well they have a chance to do that in just a
couple months don't them. Thank you all for
joining us today I appreciate your input on this
really important subject it looks like it's a
thumbs up all the way across and thank you for
inviting us into your home each week on the
county seat and remember local government is
where your life happens be part of the solution
we will see you next week on The County Seat.
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