Well, hello everybody! Welcome back to another episode of Anabaptist Perspectives.
I am here again with Matt Landis,
we did a previous episode, so if you haven't watched it there is a link below.
This is in his office here at Landis computer.
This episode is a lot more about technology, the previous one was more about social media,
but as a general rule technology has fundamentally changed our world in the last 20 years or so.
Historically, as a general rule, Mennonites have always been a little slower to adapt new innovations.
We have always been kind of cautious.
How can we cope with this new emergence of all this new technology?
One of the things about first being slow to adopt new technology; that is very much a perception.
The interesting thing is Mennonites in some areas of technology, for example,
when it comes to business technologies,
engineering technologies, solar technologies,
surprisingly Amish adopt solar kinds of things perhaps before a lot of other people.
Now that's interesting.
So it's not all types of technologies that
Mennonites and even Amish, and I don't claim to be an expert on Amish,
but it's really information and communication technology where they tend to be very very slow.
Kind of like the digital age basically, computers all that.
When someone asks the Mennonite to talk about technology at their church,
they are not thinking about medical technology, they are not thinking about CNC machines.
They are thinking about communication and information technology and how that affects us.
It can be overlooked, but that's usually what they are looking for.
Recognizing that the highly significant part
of communication and information technology is shaping our lives.
So why is that? Why the ready adoptance of some technology and not others?
I think Mennonites and conservative Anabaptists are very, very, sensitive
to what shapes them as a people, very sensitive.
They just have a hair-trigger sensitive sensor for those kind of things
Media ecologists are people that study media.
Neil postman, for example, he has noted that when you change information and
communication technology it has dramatic effects on how people interrelate, even more so in transportation.
So, I think Mennonites, because of being sensitive to that, they've noticed that.
And that is why they, of course it depends on how conservative an Anabaptist people.
Even transportation, they have some questions about it.
But most in, let's say the conservative Mennonites and Anabaptists,
it is largely information and communication that they're really pushing back on.
Because of that perception that it has such profound effects on culture,
and even how we view the world,
if now you get your whole world just kind of encapsulated by the smartphone, in a way,
that really changes your perception of everything around you.
It has a dramatic shaping effect, older people often complain about it.
That people are in their phones as opposed talking to each other.
No matter how we look at it, it does have a dramatic shaping effect.
It connects people that otherwise never would talk.
At one time you could depend on spatial separation,
living back a farm lane to be separate from other people
Social media and technology changes all of that.
Even, really, I live in Tennessee nine hours away.
We had never met until, online, you saw a video I posted and you messaged me about it,
and now we are here doing this.
That would have never happened 10 years ago.
So, how do we cope with the Internet age, because we kind of are in a new age now of the internet?
I would say that we cope with it in the same way that the church
has been faithful throughout history.
That is being a people that are transformed by Jesus, that is at the heart of it.
We can think about methods to try to tweak how we do things.
But at the heart of it Mennonites believe that that is the foundational changing thing.
And by repentance, which is changing your mind about the way you think about things.
Bringing it back to the core of what makes us who we are.
I think it was a sociologist in the 60s, Jacques Ellul,
he said that a lot of people think that they can use
technology to fix the problems technology has created.
But he said it's always too late. And I think he is on to something.
Maybe a way we would think about that today is, okay so we're gonna
fix the problem of having access to inappropriate content, photos for example, pornography.
Maybe a way to apply what he said is,
"A filter alone (another piece of technology) won't entirely solve the problem because it is a too late."
Really what you have is a fundamental change of your life,
and not to say the rest helps, but certainly a fundamental change.
Repentance and a new person.
What has the Anabaptist response been to the digital age?
One of the things that I have done because of my interest in technology,
I have surveyed between 25 and 30 statements that Mennonites and Anabaptists have made.
I have noticed about nine things that seem common between them.
To answer the question what has our response been so far,
well number one is in culture technology really dominates, it is the kind of shaping paradigm,
it is the kind of thing that shapes.
Where as Anabaptists and Mennonites they feel like it's Jesus,
and the community of Jesus' followers that really has to shape us.
And because of that people there they're thought of as people that don't use technology.
When everyone, or when a significant number of people,
see technology as kind of the hope for the future and the thing that drives what people think.
And then there's a little group of people here that don't accept that.
It is very easy to look like they don't accept technology,
but I don't think that's the case.
So when it comes to technology, what are some, for Mennonites,
some misconceptions that we have of it, because we're not always right,
but then what are some correct things as well?
So I think one of the misconceptions that that you hear is that
this is the first technological big transformation that we have had in history,
and it is just not the case.
The going from an oral culture to a to a written culture, and many of the arguments,
you can look at ancient literature and you
can see many of the arguments of going from a oral to a written culture
sound like arguments against social media for example.
You could look at going from an oral to written,
and then you went from a handwritten to a printed culture,
that was another dramatic shift.
Each time that happened it was a big transformation that the church had to respond to,
or had to had to move through.
One of the things we often say we often say that young people are looking at their phones all the time.
Well one of the things I like to point out is, think about us older folks and
how much we look at clocks.
Young people their phones drive their lives but,
for older people, clocks drive our lives and we have no concern about that whatsoever.
So technological transformation, it continues to happen.
We only usually are thinking about the very latest one.
I asked myself, "when is there tension in my life and what causes it?"
It is often a clock that is responsible for it.
Just acknowledge technological transformations have happened throughout history.
The church needs to, yes judge technology,
discern technology, and make that move an appropriate way.
So I would say that is a common misconception.
That is interesting!
Well then what are some correct perceptions that we have?
I was going to use this as a misconception and a right conception.
So often when people talk about technology they say,
"Technology is in neutral it is just how you use it."
You will often hear that and Mennonites often talk in that language.
But interestingly enough, in the philosophy of technology,
they no longer think that that is a good way to think about it.
So, we talk about misconception, but right conceptions.
In the Sermon on the Mount Jesus does say if something offends you,
and it talks about a body part, then cut it off.
And I think Anabaptists are perhaps among the very few that believe
at some point you can cut things off if they continue to be offense.
The idea that you can cut something off is not un-Jesus like.
Now, when you know when do you do it? Obviously there is lots of questions.
Groups have put that point at different places, individuals have put it at different places.
But the idea that you can say no to something,
in the past Mennonites have said no to TV pretty unanimously,
but that idea that you can say no as a group is kind of a radical idea, but one that is probably not a wrong idea.
As far as how do we as a people, as Anabaptists,
move forward in an intentional way, not completely isolating ourselves from new technology,
and the flip side you're just swallowing them
(because I have some friends that did that too they want the other way,
just to fully adopt all these new things),
where's the middle ground there, how can we move forward in the future ?
I think Anabaptists have been among some of the most intentional users of communication technology.
That is not often thought about, but when I have reviewed what Mennonites,
all the effort and all that all the things they do to be intentional,
and very thoughtful about what they do with technology,
they may be among the most intentional users of communication technology.
Kevin Kelley wrote a book "What Technology Wants"
It is a fascinating book, it is a really interesting read.
But one of the interesting things he says and, maybe he gives Mennonites too much credit,
but he says, and maybe I'll just read it here.
He describes Anabaptist technology discernment by noting that,
"Yet, paradoxically the Amish [and conservative Mennonites]
are far more scientific than most secular professionals about
which technology they adopt. (p. 254 1st printing)"
Typically non-religious consumers tend to accept technology on faith,
based on what the media says with no testing at all.
As opposed to conservative Anabaptists testing this thing and giving a pressure test to say,
"How is this thing gonna affect us."
Which is really interesting and I think a right way to do it.
Maybe we don't always test it as good as we should;
maybe Kevin Kelly gives us a little more credit than we should get.
But it is true, there is a lot of thought and a lot of,
"How is this gonna affect us?" and "What is this gonna do to us?"
thought put into it.
That is fascinating, and I think that is gonna come as a surprise to a lot of people who watch this.
I think the perception often is from the outside,
or from other groups of Mennonites that aren't doing it the same way maybe,
is that they're just not thinking through this,
and they are just kind of,
"Say no to all of it just to make sure we got the bases covered."
That's really encouraging to hear it is not that way.
Thank you all for watching another episode of Anabaptist Perspectives,
and thank you again Matt for for doing another one with us,
maybe we can do it again sometime.
This has been really good,
very educational for me and hopefully for a lot of other people as well.
If you all want to see more videos like this just comment, maybe a topic you would like to see.
Feel free to subscribe and like this video if you want to see more.
We will catch you guys in the next one.
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